Unclassified Class Category

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  • Last Post 06 May 2023
shootcast posted this 22 March 2023

Off and on over the years there has been discussions or interest in firearm categories other than in use now. This for interested new shooters wishing to start in a shooting program. The CBA invites all shooters whether you are a member or possibly thinking about becoming a member. Also it is know that many people have to drive quite a distance to attend a match/ shoot at a existing club. There fore if you belong to a sport mans club or have access to a range you can start your own chapter and the CBA will help you with the process. It’s not complicated . Many people own firearms that we seldom see in a Benchrest match. Some but certainly not all would include lever, pump, auto and Break Open designs. It is difficult to have a class for every imaginable firearm. This is part of the reason we don’t see all types of firearms. The CBA has always had a category for unclassified arms. We haven’t advertised it to it’s fullest potential in my opinion. So my question to the readers of this thread is to gain interest among the non shooters out there. Unclassified category would enable anyone to bring there firearm that doesn’t fit into one of our present classes or your just not ready to get that competitive yet. This class would be a local only event. Meaning that there’s no National Tournament involved. You get a chance to shoot one of your favorite arms with others and experience the fun . You’ll also see what others are doing with arms such as your shooting. The results can be posted both on the web site and in the Fouling Shot. You’ll meet others that are eager to help or advise and one day you may decide to shoot in one of our present classes as well. Tell us your thoughts. What would you be interested in doing. 

 

 

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Fitzpatrick posted this 22 March 2023

I think that would be enjoyable and let us meet other like minded people . I live in central Oklahoma and could travel anywhere in the state.

 

  James Fitzpatrick

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.22-10-45 posted this 24 March 2023

How about having this class in a postal match?  The British Rook &Rabbit rifles come to mind..say 50 to 100yds field positions including cross sticks? at rabbit & crow silhouettes.

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John Alexander posted this 24 March 2023

I hope that 22-10-45 post will stir up conversation on this issue. But since Dave is mostly interested in using Unclassified Class to increase participation in local matches, I have transported 22-10-45 post to a new thread to avoiding diluting Dave's thread.

John

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Fitzpatrick posted this 24 March 2023

Not sure what a British Rook& Rabbit rifle is but if I have one count me in, maybe someone here could give me a education .

 

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RicinYakima posted this 24 March 2023

The rook rifle, originally called the rook and rabbit rifle, is an obsolete English single-shot small calibre rifle intended for shooting small game, particularly rook shooting.

Typical single shot rook rifle actions.

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bullshop posted this 31 March 2023

You are spurring me on.  Because where I live we have so much open public land to shoot on I have never gone to the most local range in Dillon 50 miles distant.  I am now thinking if not me then who should look into use of the Dillon range for this purpose and advertise locally to gauge interest.  This is gun country I live in but due I guess to societal dogma placed on guns by the population centers that have different standards and needs it seems like our youth are turning from any firearms related recreational activities.

Dillon is a liberal college town but the local gun shop owner has told me these past two years his business has increased in selling arms to the formerly anti gun liberals.

Maybe having a fun event could help turn things around !   I am thinking a come as you are format that has loner guns available for anyone that might like to have a go at it could be a big help in generating interest with non gun owners.  My mind is racing here on the possibilities!  

Still it comes down to if not me then who ?  I better get cracking !

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bullshop posted this 22 April 2023

So I may be understanding this all wrong but the picture I so far have is that an unclassified match is about the same as an unlimited match where the rule is anything goes. Is that a correct assumption ?   If so by my thinking that would discourage most shooters from competing against the top end guns that will always dominate.  It turns into another most expensive rifles always win match.  Who would want to pit their Stevens model 44 in 32-20 with factory iron sights against a custom built heavy bench rifle topped off with a high powered Night force scope?  The outcome will always be predictably the same.  Dont sound like fun to me.  

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shootcast posted this 22 April 2023

The CBA has several classes of firearms. However there are many firearms that don’t fit into any of them. The old saying is you can shoot that in so and so class. The idea is you can go up in class but not down. Many actual hunting arms don’t even fit into hunting class. If they did there would be many people competing with them. So unclassified is kind of a place to shoot. You are right that it’s a domestic arms race. We still in my opinion don’t have a basic starting class.

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John Carlson posted this 22 April 2023

So I may be understanding this all wrong but the picture I so far have is that an unclassified match is about the same as an unlimited match where the rule is anything goes. Is that a correct assumption ? 

Not exactly.  Each match is open to multiple classes, generally all benchrest classes or all military classes.  Often to both.  When you show up with a gun that doesn't fit any of the classes you are welcome to shoot in the unclassified category in which case you are not actually competing with anybody. 

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 April 2023

a competitive event isn't just to glorify the winner and cast a withering shame on 2nd place down ...

it is also to find out how good you are ...  actually the system of you and your equipment ... and luck .....

if you     LIKE      to win you are a sterling example of the best of God's work ...  if you finish 23rd, you work on ways to move up to 19th next time or the time after that ...  ...  after all,  improvement is a rewarding form of mini-winning ... 

if you    HAVE     to win you are probably psychotic ...

************************

in my 40 years of racing toy cars on a very serious level  ....  I noticed that the guys having the most fun were rarely in the top ten percent ... hmmmmmm ...

ken the observer 

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John Alexander posted this 23 April 2023

John has it right, it is a mechanism to allow folks who might be interested in shooting in matches try it out with whatever they would like to bring. This includes shooting cast or jacketed bullets, or even rimfire.  It allows match directors, who have unfilled benches, and most do, to say come on in and shoot with us on Saturday, maybe you will like it. They are not competing with anyone so don't have to worry about looking bad. We hope some of them will enjoy the experience and want to go further.

We enjoy getting together with friends and shooting a match and think others might too, if they would give it a try.

John

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shootcast posted this 23 April 2023

With unclassified firearms, the ones that don’t fit into any particular class well you compete against yourself. By posting the results hopefully others might see this and shoot there firearm that is like your firearm. Or if your lucky enough to have a friend to coax into shooting the same firearm as you are then you compete with each other. It’s not a winning thing exactly. It’s nice to see how you do with a particular firearm as compared to others. Maybe a way to generate interest would be to use the forum to organize such an event. We might pull enough shooters once or twice a year to shoot such firearms. I enjoy shooting all my firearms but why shoot alone ?

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bullshop posted this 23 April 2023

"""if you    HAVE     to win you are probably psychotic ..."""

 

Maybe true but if I am going to foot the bill for my effort I would like to at least have an idea that how ever remote the possibility I might win. That is what I understand competition to be.

""I enjoy shooting all my firearms but why shoot alone ?""

 

But basically as it has been stated above if shooting unclassified you are shooting alone only there are other people around.   Why join a crowd to shoot in a class of one.

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Lucky1 posted this 23 April 2023

It doesn't even have to be unclassified to have this happen. It's not uncommon to show up to my local military match with a dozen shooters and be the only big bore competitor. I have never thought even once of turning around and going home. There is the social aspect of competition that includes people giving me crap about anything "better than a 3 is a good big bore target " to seeing if i can outdo some of the Issue small bore shooters too. (Which has happened) Shooting under competition conditions always teaches me something new and helps my gamesmanship improve compared to just shooting by myself at the home range. I can go so far as to show up with an 1889 Danish Krag converted to 45-70 and sporting mod iron sights; and know I'll be the only one with something that weirdly Unclassified but it'll still be fun and create a lot of discussion on the line. Granted, I occasionally talk to myself and have some titillating discussions but it still better having friends instead. So now I'm going out to test some loads for next weeks match and get ready for Milnats.

Scott Ingle

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John Alexander posted this 23 April 2023

Bullshop,

OK, we get it you are not interested in trying competition to see if you enjoy it.

Sounds like you are a candidate for joining the CBA and entering our matches as a competitor.  All our match directors welcome additional competitors, and our postal matches allow competition no matter where you live.

You might want to look at our Hunting Rifle or Production classes.  Almost any good production hunting rifle under 9.5 pounds with scope can be competitive in HR unless it has a custom barrel.  Most any factor varmint weight rifle could be competitive in Production class.  Very little opportunity to gain advantage via equipment.

I like to shoot in HR and shoot an unmodified six pound rifle that cost under $700 and am sometimes competitive. What's not to like?

John

 

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bullshop posted this 24 April 2023

I have been looking into postal matches with CBA but it always seems my rifles dont fit any thing other than unclassified..   For instance I have a really nice Trapdoor but the front sight is not original.  I also have a really nice Krag rifle but the rear sight is not original.  I dont want to be a cheater and break the rules.  It always seems that when I find one of the postal matches that sounds like something I would like my rifles are limited to unclassified. where as has been described there is really no competitive shooting.  I just cant motivate myself to travel to shoot in a class where I am the only competitor  when that is pretty much what I am doing at home.   As for doing it for the companionship maybe it sounds snobbish but to be honest I prefer my own company to others..  I guess old habits are hard to break  . 

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Lucky1 posted this 24 April 2023

Bullshop You are allowed to alter your front sight on a trapdoor as long as it similar in profile. ie a blade and not a globe sight. As long as the rear sight is one of the original Krag sights, very few will care since Krags have been messed with a lot for the last 130 years. And if the Krag has a more modern Lyman etc, use it as a mod iron instead. There are definitely classes in the Postals that fit those if you don't want to travel to a match and prefer to shoot on your own.

Scott Ingle

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shootcast posted this 24 April 2023

Showing up at a match and being the only shooter in your class isn’t a bad thing. As long as there is a class for it. The results get posted and other shooters who do shoot that particular class see what others are doing. With unclassified and even Postal competition you don’t even know if anyone anywhere is going to shoot at anytime. That’s why organizing unclassified makes sense. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 April 2023

WELL, since we are discussing UNCLASSIFIED >> .. 

note::  not wanting to change a thing re: our competition rules for CBA shooting .

the following is merely a thought experiment to perhaps shed light on the ephemeral logic of having competitions where all results would be manipulated to be equal. 

I believe this would lead to the bizarre circumstance that the contestants would arrive home before they even left for the shoot.

*********************

in my wasted life as a toy car racer, we developed a competition system that became the standard in the USA ... we raced " heads up " at any given meet.   we named it the " Heart of America " system.

we ran heads up ... no previous classification for driver's ability ... we qualified at that match according to how you and your equipment were doing at that match.

transposed to shoots, we would shoot as many qualifier shoots as we had time for.  big matches might be 2 or more days, 2 to 5 qualifier matches.  we use your very best match as your qualifier, and then break the final matches into groups of 10 ( or according to entry ) ...  shooters.  in YOUR FINAL for the week, you only compete against 9 other shooters who were doing about as well as you were at the time ... National champs with $3000 custom rifles against deer rifles if that is how you were shooting.

qualifier scores don't count in the Final .. for trophies .  so all the pressure and agony and terror of competition are still present in your final.  still sudden miracles ... or sudden death ... no excuses .. only performance NOW ... 

******************

this system at first was met with a lot of skepticism .. however, it was quickly made the standard in the USA .. and lasted at least 40 years.

as you are digesting this post, I know you are thinking of reasons this wouldn't work.  but it did, and please consider these weighty perks .>>>

******************

tech-in is about one minute ... or none ... more time for shooting and BS.  you can beg the match director to put you into a seperate qualifier than your wife ... heh ... no one cares.  if the TV news shows up you could put some probable top shooters together for the " humanity " factor.

it was commonly done that after every qualifier round the groups were resorted ... at least after computer scoring came on the scene ... part of the sub-plotting ... you were moving up ... or down ... but only your best match determined your final match ... then trophy or not ...

even the lowest qualifier match gets the interest and attention of the other 90 ( or 22 ) shooters ...  only 10 ( 4 ?) are shooting for trophies and everybody is watching them ... their time in the sun, and they have excited fans in the spectator gallery just as will the top aces for the week-end in the later matches ... 

i might mention that in 40 years i never saw ONE top "shooter" sandbag into a lower match just to win a trophy ...  but i did see a lot of kids starting out that won a trophy in a lower match first time out ... with 90 other competitors cheering them at the trophy presentations .  Shooter for life ?? ... think about it.

********************

again, this is not a proposal for ANY rule changes ... there is great value in the history ... and nostalgia ... of current rules ... in fact, hopefully the above dribble will reinforce the validity of our carefully developed current rules and customs.

ken the observitator

 

 

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shootcast posted this 26 April 2023

I believe this would lead to the bizarre circumstance that the contestants would arrive home before they even left for the shoot.

National Champs with $3000 custom rifles against deer rifles if that is how you were shooting.

The CBA has a point system to determine the Grand Champion. $3000 is minimal for a custom rifle today. But we do have competitors spending nearly that much for a scope in hunter class.

Standardizing the targets and time frame for unclassified would be a beginning.   

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