Odd experience with my .303 Brit

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38splpete posted this 4 weeks ago

I went to the range with my W.W.II Canadian Enfield and 20 rounds—10 rds loaded with the Lyman 314299 bullet and 18g of 4227; 10rds loaded with the same bullet and 13g Red Dot.  At 50 yds the 4227 load shot very well—9 shots in about 1”; one flyer opened the group to about 2 1/2”.  The Red Dot group was very erratic to say the least- only eight shots on paper and they all went through sideways!  Not sure if the bullets were from the same batch and the two loads had been loaded at different times—the Red Dot load in 2022 and the 4227 load in 2024. In both loads the bullets were sized .314.  This gun has always been a reliable performer for me until I tried Red Dot.  Needless to say, Red Dot will henceforth be used only in pistol loads, but if anyone has an idea about what happened, I’d like to hear it.

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Wilderness posted this 4 weeks ago

Alloy? Rifling form - two grooves or five? With gas check? Velocity? Is that bullet weight a bit much for the 13 gn load ("the load")? Lyman shows 13 gns as Max for that bullet.

Wild shooting and keyholes are typical of what some of our fellows have experienced when first trying commercial cast bullets, without gas checks, and with jacketed bullet powder loads.

I have used 10 gns Red Dot in .30-30 with hard #311576HP (112 gns with gas check). Velocity 1800 fps and good group, but wouldn't like to push it any harder. Red Dot can be very good with .32-20 bullets in .30-30 (or .303) at subsonic velocities. Red Dot load for .303 for subsonic .32-20 bullets would be in the 5 - 6 gn range.

I used to shoot rabbits with a No.1 Mk III* 303 with soft bullets from a WRACo .32-20 mould and 6 gns Sporting Ballistite (shotgun powder). Sight setting was 425 yards.

You are only as good as your library.

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JeffinNZ posted this 4 weeks ago

My guess is the Red Dot load has exceeded the pressure limits of your alloy.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Mike H posted this 4 weeks ago

Agree with JeffinNZ, start again with 8 to 10 grs of Red Dot and see what happens.I have used 12 grs of Shotgun Ballistite powder with 180 gr gás check bullet.My preference today is for more powerfull loads for ranges up to 300 metres using H4895 or similar burning rate powders.

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Urny posted this 4 weeks ago

Hello 38sp[pete.   

13 Red Dot with bullets heavier than 200 grains has given me results similar to, but less drastic than, what you experienced.  Fooling  around with lighter charges I found that Rotor 15 of my Lyman Accumeasure throws 11.2 grains Red Dot with both lots of powder I had at the time and that pretty much solved that problem for me. I was working with a Model 54 Winchester, 30-06, and a commercial Oberndorf Mauser, 303 British, and both responded well to the change shooting Lyman 311284 and 314299.  

Since the lighter charge worked so well it has become my load of choice for most bullets in the military calibers from 7mm to 8mm.

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Aaron posted this 4 weeks ago

Welcome to the world of "What propellants are designed for." I can use a 50 BMG powder to blow a lead bullet out of a 38 Special but it simply won't perform like TiteGroup or another "handgun" propellant eh. I have NEVER had much success with the DOT propellants in anything other than shotgun shells. Even Blue Dot, once listed in load manuals for some handgun cartridges, caused eye-opening pressure situations. I dropped that powder immediately and gave the remainder to a friend for his 12ga shells. I value my phalanges.

Simply drop the Red Dot and stick with 4227.

And.....the rifle is Canadian. Did you speak French to it? smile

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 4 weeks ago

my normal plinking powder charge for most any case larger than a 32-20 is 7 grains of fast pistol or shotgun powder ...  Unique ...700X ...  Alcan 5 ...   etc.   I do up to 10-13 gr. for the 45-70.  never had a bullet not make it out of the barrel yet.

98 per cent of my plinking is under 50 yards, plain base,  so 2 to 3 moa keeps me happy ...  i get my kicks from using and tuning old guns. so a bouncing pop can shows me I did that ok.  

on the rare adventure into improved accuracy my tricks are bullet fit in the throat and avoiding marring the bullet in the neck of the brass. ( tapered neck id ) I might mention that some fairly ugly castings out of the mold can shoot pretty good but if the neck of the case messes them up the groups grow.   ...  

ken

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MP1886 posted this 4 weeks ago

Just wondering if when using small amounts of powder if you are tipping your muzzle upward before each shot? This consistently places the small powder amount again the flash hole. Makes it ignite better then if one charge is aagainst the flash hole and another it up against the base of the bullet.

 

I'd stick with the 4227 or look for a powder in the same burn rate as the 4227. Good luck.

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