Unclassified Class Category

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Last Post 06 May 2023

Standard Member

shootcast posted this 22 March 2023

Off and on over the years there has been discussions or interest in firearm categories other than in use now. This for interested new shooters wishing to start in a shooting program. The CBA invites all shooters whether you are a member or possibly thinking about becoming a member. Also it is know that many people have to drive quite a distance to attend a match/ shoot at a existing club. There fore if you belong to a sport mans club or have access to a range you can start your own chapter and the CBA will help you with the process. It’s not complicated . Many people own firearms that we seldom see in a Benchrest match. Some but certainly not all would include lever, pump, auto and Break Open designs. It is difficult to have a class for every imaginable firearm. This is part of the reason we don’t see all types of firearms. The CBA has always had a category for unclassified arms. We haven’t advertised it to it’s fullest potential in my opinion. So my question to the readers of this thread is to gain interest among the non shooters out there. Unclassified category would enable anyone to bring there firearm that doesn’t fit into one of our present classes or your just not ready to get that competitive yet. This class would be a local only event. Meaning that there’s no National Tournament involved. You get a chance to shoot one of your favorite arms with others and experience the fun . You’ll also see what others are doing with arms such as your shooting. The results can be posted both on the web site and in the Fouling Shot. You’ll meet others that are eager to help or advise and one day you may decide to shoot in one of our present classes as well. Tell us your thoughts. What would you be interested in doing.

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Standard Member

shootcast posted this 24 April 2023

Showing up at a match and being the only shooter in your class isn’t a bad thing. As long as there is a class for it. The results get posted and other shooters who do shoot that particular class see what others are doing. With unclassified and even Postal competition you don’t even know if anyone anywhere is going to shoot at anytime. That’s why organizing unclassified makes sense.

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RicinYakima posted this 04 May 2023

I don't know that that is bad, for a new shooter.

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RicinYakima posted this 24 March 2023

The rook rifle, originally called the rook and rabbit rifle, is an obsolete English single-shot small calibre rifle intended for shooting small game, particularly rook shooting.

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 23 April 2023

John has it right, it is a mechanism to allow folks who might be interested in shooting in matches try it out with whatever they would like to bring. This includes shooting cast or jacketed bullets, or even rimfire. It allows match directors, who have unfilled benches, and most do, to say come on in and shoot with us on Saturday, maybe you will like it. They are not competing with anyone so don't have to worry about looking bad. We hope some of them will enjoy the experience and want to go further.

We enjoy getting together with friends and shooting a match and think others might too, if they would give it a try.

John

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Lucky1 posted this 24 April 2023

Bullshop You are allowed to alter your front sight on a trapdoor as long as it similar in profile. ie a blade and not a globe sight. As long as the rear sight is one of the original Krag sights, very few will care since Krags have been messed with a lot for the last 130 years. And if the Krag has a more modern Lyman etc, use it as a mod iron instead. There are definitely classes in the Postals that fit those if you don't want to travel to a match and prefer to shoot on your own.

Scott Ingle

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CBA Regional Director

Tom Acheson posted this 26 April 2023

Guess this one is too hard to resist responding to.

My main CBA match gun category is LRH (Long Range Handgun). I think I’ve been to (4) National Tournaments, where I entered the LRH category (I’ve entered Production twice), and only two of those matches had another entrant in LRH besides me. So I drove (800) miles to KC knowing ahead of time I’d be shooting alone in the LRH category. The convoluted point system in play @ the NT is a guarantee that no matter how well a LRH entrant does, he/she will NEVER be the Grand National Pooba. To me there is a lot more to a NT than the actual shooting. Seeing old friends, looking @ the other guns and accessories, socializing….and the hamburgers! Feeding my ego, telling myself I’m “the best”, is worthless. Don’t care, not important. Others will disagree. I just enjoy the overall match experience and the shooting is a side benefit.

Before you write this callous attitude off, take a look @ the CBA LRH National Records. It is possible to have a standout day shooting, every now and then.

For me my competition is myself. I’m always trying different loads, bench set up, technique, etc. with the desire to improve over what I did in previous attempts. If there is another LRH shooter, all the better. I often learn from the other shooter(s) something useful to me.

When the dust settles, when you “win” what have you won? And…who will remember your glorious accomplishment 2-weeks later?

Now down off the soapbox.

Tom

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shootcast posted this 28 April 2023

My suggestion was to use the military targets for all unclassified shooters.Iron sight and scope. Remember these competitors aren’t setting National Tournament Records. The competitors paperwork separates iron from scope. This is a class more for the firearms we don’t see in shoulder to shoulder competition of the red conventional targets. We are trying to get new shooters interested in our program. Some hopefully will at some point switch into one of our present classes. When they do they shoot the red Conventional target. Sand baggers aren’t really winning by shooting a unlimited class rifle for example. They maybe a winner in unclassified but has nothing to do with our present category. We can still list results and possibly quarterly do a write up for the Fouling Shot showing the combined shooters, scores and so forth. As more people see this we might get lucky and get more new shooters.

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shootcast posted this 02 May 2023

If unclassified shooters decide to shoot the red target it creates another problem. It would have to be noted as which target the score was shot on. That’s why I feel everyone should be doing the same thing.

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 03 May 2023

OK, I perhaps stupidly, offered to send a message to Match Directors because I have a contact list handy. I have tried to draft such a message. Is this what you want sent to MD. If not, write the message you want sent and let me know.

John

===============

"To Match Directors;

There is an ongoing discussion on the CBA Forum titled "Unclassified Class Category", the participants have included three CBA match directors, a couple of board members and several active CBA shooters. The participants seemed to agree about two things and have asked me to send this message to CBA Match Directors. (I have an email contact list of MDs)

1. The unclassified category could be used effectively to recruit more CBA shooters and Match Directors should invite local shooters to participate in local matches with whatever kind of rifle and ammunition they would like to shoot as unclassified shooters.

2. The consensus was that there would be advantages if all unclassified shooters used the TQ4 (military) target.

Please read and comment the thread on the forum for a better understanding of the issue."

John

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CBA Regional Director

Tom Acheson posted this 06 May 2023

All of us have different experiences. One of mine was different regarding recruiting. Long ago at the annual March gun show (2009?), a guy carrying a Shiloh Sharps Model 74, of course with iron sights, chambered in 45-70. This was when our CBA table (mistakenly) focused on the matches. He (Lloyd) asked me….can I shoot this in your matches?”. I said sure and he showed up. He lives 85-miles away.For a couple of years he shot jacketed bullets. Then he started buying cast bullets. He WAS NOT a caster at the outset.

Eventually he migrated to a Military rifle and then a Hunter category rifle. He goes back and forth between the two today. Eventually he took up casting to help him expand his load development work for several rifles.

In closing….take anyone you can get, the shooter does not have to be caster. Work with him, coach him, and eventually he might move up to our level of guns and ammo.

FWIW

Tom

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Lucky1 posted this 06 May 2023

I'm going to agree with Tom on this one. Many of us cast our own bullets and tend to look at this hobby from that perspective. That is not the only entry point to cast bullet shooting and Missouri and Lazer Cast have to be selling to someone. So if they can come to a match, have fun with purchased bullets from whatever source, they will eventually grow into other areas of interest.
My own experience mirrors this to a degree. I came to the CBA because a friend told me about it and encouraged me to try. I had several decades of casting but they were pure lead RB for my frontstuffers. So I got some 30 cal molds and eventually went to a match. Results were disappointing for the first match but the shooters worked at getting me through and I had fun in spite of the frustration. So I learned about molds, alloys and lubes and powders, oh my. The military matches morphed into the modern ones too and yes, I'm still perplexed and frustrated some days but I intend to keep having fun with the other shooters help.

Scott Ingle

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Fitzpatrick posted this 22 March 2023

I think that would be enjoyable and let us meet other like minded people . I live in central Oklahoma and could travel anywhere in the state.

James Fitzpatrick

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.22-10-45 posted this 24 March 2023

How about having this class in a postal match? The British Rook &Rabbit rifles come to mind..say 50 to 100yds field positions including cross sticks? at rabbit & crow silhouettes.

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bullshop posted this 22 April 2023

So I may be understanding this all wrong but the picture I so far have is that an unclassified match is about the same as an unlimited match where the rule is anything goes. Is that a correct assumption ? If so by my thinking that would discourage most shooters from competing against the top end guns that will always dominate. It turns into another most expensive rifles always win match. Who would want to pit their Stevens model 44 in 32-20 with factory iron sights against a custom built heavy bench rifle topped off with a high powered Night force scope? The outcome will always be predictably the same. Dont sound like fun to me.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 April 2023

a competitive event isn't just to glorify the winner and cast a withering shame on 2nd place down ...

it is also to find out how good you are ... actually the system of you and your equipment ... and luck .....

if you LIKE to win you are a sterling example of the best of God's work ... if you finish 23rd, you work on ways to move up to 19th next time or the time after that ... ... after all, improvement is a rewarding form of mini-winning ...

if you HAVE to win you are probably psychotic ...

************************

in my 40 years of racing toy cars on a very serious level .... I noticed that the guys having the most fun were rarely in the top ten percent ... hmmmmmm ...

ken the observer

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Lucky1 posted this 23 April 2023

It doesn't even have to be unclassified to have this happen. It's not uncommon to show up to my local military match with a dozen shooters and be the only big bore competitor. I have never thought even once of turning around and going home. There is the social aspect of competition that includes people giving me crap about anything "better than a 3 is a good big bore target " to seeing if i can outdo some of the Issue small bore shooters too. (Which has happened) Shooting under competition conditions always teaches me something new and helps my gamesmanship improve compared to just shooting by myself at the home range. I can go so far as to show up with an 1889 Danish Krag converted to 45-70 and sporting mod iron sights; and know I'll be the only one with something that weirdly Unclassified but it'll still be fun and create a lot of discussion on the line. Granted, I occasionally talk to myself and have some titillating discussions but it still better having friends instead. So now I'm going out to test some loads for next weeks match and get ready for Milnats.

Scott Ingle

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bullshop posted this 24 April 2023

I have been looking into postal matches with CBA but it always seems my rifles dont fit any thing other than unclassified.. For instance I have a really nice Trapdoor but the front sight is not original. I also have a really nice Krag rifle but the rear sight is not original. I dont want to be a cheater and break the rules. It always seems that when I find one of the postal matches that sounds like something I would like my rifles are limited to unclassified. where as has been described there is really no competitive shooting. I just cant motivate myself to travel to shoot in a class where I am the only competitor when that is pretty much what I am doing at home. As for doing it for the companionship maybe it sounds snobbish but to be honest I prefer my own company to others.. I guess old habits are hard to break .

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Lucky1 posted this 26 April 2023

Tom, I agree 98% with your post. I agree that the hamburgers are good, but the Friday Fish Fry is tops. My wife doesn't particularly like fish but anticipates this every year.

Scott Ingle

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JimmyDee posted this 27 April 2023

...in 40 years i never saw ONE top "shooter" sandbag into a lower match just to win a trophy

Sadly, I saw that frequently in IPSC matches. Maybe not top shooters, perhaps, but plenty of A and B shooters. Just another way to game the rules, I suppose.

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RicinYakima posted this 29 April 2023

Most excellent idea! I have rifle I would like to shoot, but don't meet any requirement. Like a 1917 Newton in 30/06 with iron sights and never going to be drilled and tapped. Shooting the TQ4 military target will get you more shooters!

The other thought is all the folks with AR's to shoot iron/scope/electron sights on the big target, so they can hit on the paper.