Ruger 44 Special Problems.....

  • 13K Views
  • Last Post 14 December 2013
offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Well I had proven to myself over the years that I don't shoot magnums very well, and decided to try the 44 Special by getting one of the new Ruger Flattops. I got a NOE 429421 mold from someone here, as that bullet seems like the cat's meow to at least one of my favorite gun writers....And it makes some REALLY fine bullets from 30:1 22LR range scrap and tin.... I made up a few different loads with IMR PB, Blue Dot, SR7625,HERCO, AA#2 and HP38, and hit the outdoor range at 25yds. I was not so pleased with my groups, but decided that even though I had chosen mid-range loads, they did seem a little hotter than I had expected. I did not have my Chrony with me, I had decided to find something that shot well for me 1st, then Chrony. I made up some more but lighter loads and made another trip to the outdoor range . I saw great improvement, but still had at 2 bad fliers per 12 rounds with each load. So I decided to try the LEE 429-200RF as well in case it is the revolver not liking the 429421's, and made up a few loads a little lower than listed start loads for Blue Dot, IMR PB, and SR7625. I had a chance to get to an indoor range much closer to home yesterday after work, so I tried these at 25-30ft instead of the full 50 ft available, just to see what I could get. I had gotten into the habit of the old sixgun loading of load 1,skip 1, load 4. which seemed to work for me as I loaded 10 rounds of each of 3 loads for the two bullets..... I am posting 3 of my indoor targets and a photo of the uncleaned cylinder ....the flyers are VERY apparent in the 25ft and 30ft targets, though because I did not load 6 each time, the “bad” chamber may not have been fired each loading......It looks like I have one chamber that is badly out of time, with possibly two others not so good.... The cylinder photo is from one of the first outings. My pro level camera died since, and I am not able to get a decent image of the cylinder from last night's session with my spare camera. From last night's session, the lead ring on the chamber is even more pronounced, along with a chunk plating the front of the cylinder just below the chamber mouth. I felt a spit of debris and something touched my safety glasses on one round, and that was probably it. Target #2 shows a wild hole at the top, but looks like a smaller caliber, I suspect the individual at the next lane shooting a 9mm did that......but it still shows the flyer, that would show up badly at 25 yds. I am making plans to call Ruger today......

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Ok, I figured out how to get a 2nd photo of the cylinder....macro works, zoom does not. Now you can see the smudge below/next to one chamber that probably was the source of the lead spit I felt last night. Also showing the bullets made from the NOE 429421 and LEE 429-200RF Molds

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 11 January 2013

What size are your bullets? My old Ruger needs .432” at least.

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

These are sized .431” The bore slugs at .417/.431, and the chamber mouths show a tight slip fit with bullets sized .431"

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 11 January 2013

Are all six chambers in your cylinder the same? The excessive lead flash around the one chamber suggests that one may be different.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Well, I am leaving the cyl dirty for the time being until talking to Ruger , but I do recall a SLIGHT difference in feel between chambers when checking them first with unsized bullets <.433, no-go> and .431 sized bullets all go, most tight press fit although one may be a little easier than another. All the chamber mouths measured .431” including the one with the lead flash ,with a dial caliper. I know that that is not as good as a plug gauge, but that is what I have. Thanks for thinking of that, though!

Attached Files

delmarskid1 posted this 12 January 2013

Is the face of the cylinder square with the barrel for all six cylinders? I've had what you describe show up in a worn out double action but in a single action that is just weird.

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 12 January 2013

Not only is that strange, this revolver is brand new with less than 250 rounds through it. And it was this way from the first time it was fired. I noticed the flash on the one chamber the first time I went to clean it after the 1st 50 rounds went through it. I have had several New Model Blackhawks over the years, this is my first new one. All the mechanics and lockups are almost as tight as the Freedom Arms 454 I once had . I am going to take it out once more, tracking each shot by chamber. I think one of the bolt stop notches is not right, making it out of time. Then I will call Ruger.

Attached Files

CB posted this 12 January 2013

Ruger cylinder throats can have a taper that is from the outside in. The bullet slid through the throat will only show the tightest constriction, not necessarily a taper.

With both a .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinder, the bullet would drop a third of the way into the throat in each cylinder and then meet resistance thereby indicating the taper. And the cylinders were not even, some had more taper than others.

You might check the outer dimension and the inner dimension, thereby seeing if there is a taper. If the throat tapers outward, you can be blowing the base out in the travel through the throat and causing the lead splasn you are seeing.

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 18 January 2013

Ok, I took this revolver to the indoor range yesterday.....and shot 3 full cylinders on 2 targets at 30 feet with the IMR PB load....one target with 6 rounds showed no flyer, the 2nd targe w/ 12 rounds showed one flyer, there was prominent alloy flash on the one chamber. Now I know which chamber it is. After cleaning up this AM, I noticed that for one chamber the bolt needs an extra “tug” on the hammer to fully engage the cylinder bolt stop. Two clicks to fully engage the bolt stop, instead of the one all the other chambers need. It requires extra care to fully engage, and the cyl. does move more into battery with the 2nd click. hmmmm....guess which chamber it is for.....Time to call Ruger.

Attached Files

Lefty posted this 18 January 2013

I bought a very clean used 357 Blackhawk a couple years back. It did the exact same thing including spitting lead in my face. It was then clear why it was back on the dealers shelf. I sent it in to Ruger with a note explaining that there was a timing problem. In due course, it was returned without comment but much improved - not perfect but much improved.

Attached Files

Uncle Russ posted this 18 January 2013

Question. Has the “Quality/Accuracy” deteriated since Bill Ruger has died? We never heard or read of such things when he was still with us or did they just NOT write about such things then?

I had some work done on a 77/22 in .22 Hornet and talking to the factory was like talking to a brick. This is how we do it, take it or leave it. New barrel or not still shoots cast about the same. I am just $186.00 poorer.

Side note on the new .44 Flat Top. Bisley or standard grip they were both stand-up shoot 'em up handguns. But then Elmer and Skeeter may have influenced me just a mite. Still waiting to find mine in the dealer's case. :cowboy:

Attached Files

Uncle Russ posted this 18 January 2013

Oooops!

Forgot to mention. Those powders you mentioned are all along the line of magnum, slower powders.

Try some 231 or Bullseye. Way more fun! And the target can't tell the difference.

:fire

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 18 January 2013

Uncle Russ, it is true that Blue Dot is more of a magnum powder, but I have found that with a somewhat reduced load I get “stout” yet manageable shooting with a 245gr LSWC, with pleasing accuracy. I am still well within the listing for my bullet in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual. IMR PB, not much magnum, typically not rated to produce top velocities, but shows great accuracy in the start load ranges. I have found this to be so for me with the 44Spl, and after running 5 or 6 different powders, have settled on the Blue Dot and PB loads. This spring I plan to chrony them, and re evaluate if I find them to be slower than I actually want. I started my handgun reloading using HERCO and AA #2. I have burned a lot of HERCO as time has gone by, never getting the accuracy I really wanted in any caliber. :thinking: But I am pleased with the Blue Dot in this. I did try HP-38 in this revolver, as I know it is popular, but it did not come close to what I am seeing with my Blue Dot and IMR PB loads.

In regard to Ruger's current level of service, I called this AM, and got into a message queue. I left my message, but it remains to be seen as to when they call me back. NOT the way it used to be, that is for sure.

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 02 February 2013

UPDATE: Ruger customer service returned my call 2 business days after I had called and left a detailed message. They issued me an RMA # and emailed a next day air UPS label. It arrived back a week and a half later. Ruger replaced the pawl (hand), and the gate spring , and “repaired loading cone", whatever that is. Anyway, EVERY position lines up into battery with no hesitation and no need for vigorous cocking or extra help....seems hopeful.....

Attached Files

Lefty posted this 02 February 2013

Its nice to know they did the right thing.

Attached Files

oscarflytyer posted this 06 March 2013

If things still don't work, feel free to ping me. I am using all powders diff than you - w/ 240-255 Keith styles, Unique (Skelton load), 2400, Power Pistol and, iirc HP38 w/ a Lee RNFP that is dropping at about 217 gr.

Everything is within about 1.5", OH, no fliers that are not shooter error.

Sizing .432 but really don't need to. Lubed w/ 45/45/10 homemade.

My gun is a new model flattop 4 5/8” bbl BH.

If things don't work out for you, I would be happy to send you some of my bullets and specific load data. I am using Fed primers and mix/match (who knows how many times fired!) brass!

Attached Files

gunarea posted this 06 March 2013

Hey offhand35

   How about an update. Ruger flattops are the most common handguns used here to play with. Your situation is not uncommon and there have been different resolutions. Several shooters here simply do not use the suspect cylinder/s. Our game requires specific velocity and projectile weight limits. For reduced loads it is necessary to follow some different procedures to perform. After Ruger “tune ups” things get different. Through semi-extensive testing, there may be a couple tweaks I could offer.

   By any chance did the barrel give clues? Cause for flyers can lurk everywhere.

                                                                                                          Roy 

Shoot often, Shoot well

Attached Files

offhand35 posted this 19 April 2013

UPDATE: Thank you for all your replies! I did get the Flattop back from Ruger. They replaced the hand, and otherwise  did not address  cylinder lockup. I do find that the incorrect lockup on the one chamber location is resolved.  I finally got to shoot it after getting it back. The flash on the chamber mouth is still pronounced on one chamber mouth, and less so on another, like before. Same chambers, also.

However, in spite the apparent excess flash on the cylinder, it DOES seem to shoot better!

The upper left target on #2  shows one flyer out of 8 rounds, but I called that one.  The 1st group , lower right on target #1  with my Blue Dot load was quite pleasing, and previously would have shown one 3-4” low flyer per full cylinder every time.The flyer seems to appear on the upper right of #1, but I am not sure that it is due to a problem with the revolver because of what I see on the other targets and loads. So for me , it is now shooting much better, and maybe I should ignore the flash on the cylinder mouths.

The other  loads on targets #1 &  #2 are with the 429421 with PB and with the LEE 200gr RNFP and PB. It is obvious that this revolver likes the Blue Dot load better.  The only problem is that the rear sight is bottomed out, so the Blue Dot load shoots 1.25” high at 30ft. I will have to check it out at 25 yds before doing anything more with that load.

Attached Files

hunterspistol posted this 19 April 2013

I use that 200 grain RF lee mold in front of 7.4 grains of Unique. Recently, someone asked why we don't shoot handguns at any distance. So, I took 50 rounds and set up shooting at 3” round targets at 50 meters. 

I was pretty surprised when my old eyes picked off two of them.  It hit hard enough to break the welds, they came off the bases!  You'll find that flattop has enough power to reach 100 meters easily.  Do you have the skill? Mine begs that question all the time.

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 19 April 2013

I'd like to see a picture of that cylinder face after a good cleaning, dry. Before and after type thing.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close