Ruger 44 Special Problems.....

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  • Last Post 14 December 2013
offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Well I had proven to myself over the years that I don't shoot magnums very well, and decided to try the 44 Special by getting one of the new Ruger Flattops. I got a NOE 429421 mold from someone here, as that bullet seems like the cat's meow to at least one of my favorite gun writers....And it makes some REALLY fine bullets from 30:1 22LR range scrap and tin.... I made up a few different loads with IMR PB, Blue Dot, SR7625,HERCO, AA#2 and HP38, and hit the outdoor range at 25yds. I was not so pleased with my groups, but decided that even though I had chosen mid-range loads, they did seem a little hotter than I had expected. I did not have my Chrony with me, I had decided to find something that shot well for me 1st, then Chrony. I made up some more but lighter loads and made another trip to the outdoor range . I saw great improvement, but still had at 2 bad fliers per 12 rounds with each load. So I decided to try the LEE 429-200RF as well in case it is the revolver not liking the 429421's, and made up a few loads a little lower than listed start loads for Blue Dot, IMR PB, and SR7625. I had a chance to get to an indoor range much closer to home yesterday after work, so I tried these at 25-30ft instead of the full 50 ft available, just to see what I could get. I had gotten into the habit of the old sixgun loading of load 1,skip 1, load 4. which seemed to work for me as I loaded 10 rounds of each of 3 loads for the two bullets..... I am posting 3 of my indoor targets and a photo of the uncleaned cylinder ....the flyers are VERY apparent in the 25ft and 30ft targets, though because I did not load 6 each time, the “bad” chamber may not have been fired each loading......It looks like I have one chamber that is badly out of time, with possibly two others not so good.... The cylinder photo is from one of the first outings. My pro level camera died since, and I am not able to get a decent image of the cylinder from last night's session with my spare camera. From last night's session, the lead ring on the chamber is even more pronounced, along with a chunk plating the front of the cylinder just below the chamber mouth. I felt a spit of debris and something touched my safety glasses on one round, and that was probably it. Target #2 shows a wild hole at the top, but looks like a smaller caliber, I suspect the individual at the next lane shooting a 9mm did that......but it still shows the flyer, that would show up badly at 25 yds. I am making plans to call Ruger today......

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offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Ok, I figured out how to get a 2nd photo of the cylinder....macro works, zoom does not. Now you can see the smudge below/next to one chamber that probably was the source of the lead spit I felt last night. Also showing the bullets made from the NOE 429421 and LEE 429-200RF Molds

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tturner53 posted this 11 January 2013

What size are your bullets? My old Ruger needs .432” at least.

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offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

These are sized .431” The bore slugs at .417/.431, and the chamber mouths show a tight slip fit with bullets sized .431"

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Ed Harris posted this 11 January 2013

Are all six chambers in your cylinder the same? The excessive lead flash around the one chamber suggests that one may be different.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Well, I am leaving the cyl dirty for the time being until talking to Ruger , but I do recall a SLIGHT difference in feel between chambers when checking them first with unsized bullets <.433, no-go> and .431 sized bullets all go, most tight press fit although one may be a little easier than another. All the chamber mouths measured .431” including the one with the lead flash ,with a dial caliper. I know that that is not as good as a plug gauge, but that is what I have. Thanks for thinking of that, though!

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delmarskid1 posted this 12 January 2013

Is the face of the cylinder square with the barrel for all six cylinders? I've had what you describe show up in a worn out double action but in a single action that is just weird.

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offhand35 posted this 12 January 2013

Not only is that strange, this revolver is brand new with less than 250 rounds through it. And it was this way from the first time it was fired. I noticed the flash on the one chamber the first time I went to clean it after the 1st 50 rounds went through it. I have had several New Model Blackhawks over the years, this is my first new one. All the mechanics and lockups are almost as tight as the Freedom Arms 454 I once had . I am going to take it out once more, tracking each shot by chamber. I think one of the bolt stop notches is not right, making it out of time. Then I will call Ruger.

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CB posted this 12 January 2013

Ruger cylinder throats can have a taper that is from the outside in. The bullet slid through the throat will only show the tightest constriction, not necessarily a taper.

With both a .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinder, the bullet would drop a third of the way into the throat in each cylinder and then meet resistance thereby indicating the taper. And the cylinders were not even, some had more taper than others.

You might check the outer dimension and the inner dimension, thereby seeing if there is a taper. If the throat tapers outward, you can be blowing the base out in the travel through the throat and causing the lead splasn you are seeing.

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offhand35 posted this 18 January 2013

Ok, I took this revolver to the indoor range yesterday.....and shot 3 full cylinders on 2 targets at 30 feet with the IMR PB load....one target with 6 rounds showed no flyer, the 2nd targe w/ 12 rounds showed one flyer, there was prominent alloy flash on the one chamber. Now I know which chamber it is. After cleaning up this AM, I noticed that for one chamber the bolt needs an extra “tug” on the hammer to fully engage the cylinder bolt stop. Two clicks to fully engage the bolt stop, instead of the one all the other chambers need. It requires extra care to fully engage, and the cyl. does move more into battery with the 2nd click. hmmmm....guess which chamber it is for.....Time to call Ruger.

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Lefty posted this 18 January 2013

I bought a very clean used 357 Blackhawk a couple years back. It did the exact same thing including spitting lead in my face. It was then clear why it was back on the dealers shelf. I sent it in to Ruger with a note explaining that there was a timing problem. In due course, it was returned without comment but much improved - not perfect but much improved.

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Uncle Russ posted this 18 January 2013

Question. Has the “Quality/Accuracy” deteriated since Bill Ruger has died? We never heard or read of such things when he was still with us or did they just NOT write about such things then?

I had some work done on a 77/22 in .22 Hornet and talking to the factory was like talking to a brick. This is how we do it, take it or leave it. New barrel or not still shoots cast about the same. I am just $186.00 poorer.

Side note on the new .44 Flat Top. Bisley or standard grip they were both stand-up shoot 'em up handguns. But then Elmer and Skeeter may have influenced me just a mite. Still waiting to find mine in the dealer's case. :cowboy:

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Uncle Russ posted this 18 January 2013

Oooops!

Forgot to mention. Those powders you mentioned are all along the line of magnum, slower powders.

Try some 231 or Bullseye. Way more fun! And the target can't tell the difference.

:fire

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offhand35 posted this 18 January 2013

Uncle Russ, it is true that Blue Dot is more of a magnum powder, but I have found that with a somewhat reduced load I get “stout” yet manageable shooting with a 245gr LSWC, with pleasing accuracy. I am still well within the listing for my bullet in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual. IMR PB, not much magnum, typically not rated to produce top velocities, but shows great accuracy in the start load ranges. I have found this to be so for me with the 44Spl, and after running 5 or 6 different powders, have settled on the Blue Dot and PB loads. This spring I plan to chrony them, and re evaluate if I find them to be slower than I actually want. I started my handgun reloading using HERCO and AA #2. I have burned a lot of HERCO as time has gone by, never getting the accuracy I really wanted in any caliber. :thinking: But I am pleased with the Blue Dot in this. I did try HP-38 in this revolver, as I know it is popular, but it did not come close to what I am seeing with my Blue Dot and IMR PB loads.

In regard to Ruger's current level of service, I called this AM, and got into a message queue. I left my message, but it remains to be seen as to when they call me back. NOT the way it used to be, that is for sure.

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offhand35 posted this 02 February 2013

UPDATE: Ruger customer service returned my call 2 business days after I had called and left a detailed message. They issued me an RMA # and emailed a next day air UPS label. It arrived back a week and a half later. Ruger replaced the pawl (hand), and the gate spring , and “repaired loading cone", whatever that is. Anyway, EVERY position lines up into battery with no hesitation and no need for vigorous cocking or extra help....seems hopeful.....

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Lefty posted this 02 February 2013

Its nice to know they did the right thing.

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oscarflytyer posted this 06 March 2013

If things still don't work, feel free to ping me. I am using all powders diff than you - w/ 240-255 Keith styles, Unique (Skelton load), 2400, Power Pistol and, iirc HP38 w/ a Lee RNFP that is dropping at about 217 gr.

Everything is within about 1.5", OH, no fliers that are not shooter error.

Sizing .432 but really don't need to. Lubed w/ 45/45/10 homemade.

My gun is a new model flattop 4 5/8” bbl BH.

If things don't work out for you, I would be happy to send you some of my bullets and specific load data. I am using Fed primers and mix/match (who knows how many times fired!) brass!

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gunarea posted this 06 March 2013

Hey offhand35

   How about an update. Ruger flattops are the most common handguns used here to play with. Your situation is not uncommon and there have been different resolutions. Several shooters here simply do not use the suspect cylinder/s. Our game requires specific velocity and projectile weight limits. For reduced loads it is necessary to follow some different procedures to perform. After Ruger “tune ups” things get different. Through semi-extensive testing, there may be a couple tweaks I could offer.

   By any chance did the barrel give clues? Cause for flyers can lurk everywhere.

                                                                                                          Roy 

Shoot often, Shoot well

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offhand35 posted this 19 April 2013

UPDATE: Thank you for all your replies! I did get the Flattop back from Ruger. They replaced the hand, and otherwise  did not address  cylinder lockup. I do find that the incorrect lockup on the one chamber location is resolved.  I finally got to shoot it after getting it back. The flash on the chamber mouth is still pronounced on one chamber mouth, and less so on another, like before. Same chambers, also.

However, in spite the apparent excess flash on the cylinder, it DOES seem to shoot better!

The upper left target on #2  shows one flyer out of 8 rounds, but I called that one.  The 1st group , lower right on target #1  with my Blue Dot load was quite pleasing, and previously would have shown one 3-4” low flyer per full cylinder every time.The flyer seems to appear on the upper right of #1, but I am not sure that it is due to a problem with the revolver because of what I see on the other targets and loads. So for me , it is now shooting much better, and maybe I should ignore the flash on the cylinder mouths.

The other  loads on targets #1 &  #2 are with the 429421 with PB and with the LEE 200gr RNFP and PB. It is obvious that this revolver likes the Blue Dot load better.  The only problem is that the rear sight is bottomed out, so the Blue Dot load shoots 1.25” high at 30ft. I will have to check it out at 25 yds before doing anything more with that load.

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hunterspistol posted this 19 April 2013

I use that 200 grain RF lee mold in front of 7.4 grains of Unique. Recently, someone asked why we don't shoot handguns at any distance. So, I took 50 rounds and set up shooting at 3” round targets at 50 meters. 

I was pretty surprised when my old eyes picked off two of them.  It hit hard enough to break the welds, they came off the bases!  You'll find that flattop has enough power to reach 100 meters easily.  Do you have the skill? Mine begs that question all the time.

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tturner53 posted this 19 April 2013

I'd like to see a picture of that cylinder face after a good cleaning, dry. Before and after type thing.

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offhand35 posted this 20 April 2013

Well, you have seen the after shooting photos, I just took an after cleaning photo.  From this view you cannot tell which chambers have been flashing. They are the two at 7 o'clock and 9 o'clock, with the one at 9 o'clock being the worst.

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delmarskid1 posted this 20 April 2013

I know that it sounds silly but is the chamber that paints lead round? It looks funny in your photo. Shadows lie of course.

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hunterspistol posted this 21 April 2013

"if it does not shoot REALLY well at 30ft. it sure ain't gonna shoot well at 50 ft or 25 yds."

You got that right! I spent a bit of time on the range shooting 15 yards to get a load that was anywhere near reasonably accurate first. I have access to an outdoor hunter's pistol range. Indoors would be an entirely different animal. 

 Good Luck,
       Ron

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rojkoh posted this 29 June 2013

Suggestion, you might want to talk to Ed about this, given his time at Ruger and the fact that he's fiddling with a flat top now (convertible).

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Ed Harris posted this 29 June 2013

Are there any “dings” on the front edge of the chambers, where a burr may have been turned up by an out of time chamber being struck by a range rod? THAT will sure as heck cause fliers! And should be easy to see!

I would also like to know if one ball seat is larger or out of round. I would take some pure lead round balls and tap fully into, but not through each chamber, then tap them back out and measure in several places to see the slugs are round and of uniform size.

You might try shooting some soft, 8-10 BHN, only slightly oversized bullets. My .44 RBH ball seats slug .432 and I shoot Saeco #441 as-cast and unsized at .433” with 5 grains of Bullseye in .44 Special brass or 7.2 grains of Bullseye in .44 Magnum brass.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 29 June 2013

Ed Harris wrote: Are there any “dings” on the front edge of the chambers, where a burr may have been turned up by an out of time chamber being struck by a range rod? THAT will sure as heck cause fliers! And should be easy to see!

I would also like to know if one ball seat is larger or out of round. I would take some pure lead round balls and tap fully into, but not through each chamber, then tap them back out and measure in several places to see the slugs are round and of uniform size.

You might try shooting some soft, 8-10 BHN, only slightly oversized bullets. My .44 RBH ball seats slug .432 and I shoot Saeco #441 as-cast and unsized at .433” with 5 grains of Bullseye in .44 Special brass or 7.2 grains of Bullseye in .44 Magnum brass.

Great! as long as you don't go into .45 Scofield! ;)

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offhand35 posted this 02 October 2013

UPDATE: The one chamber is still showing excessive flashing, and does spit lead. I have decided on a course of action after the encouraging but incomplete response I got from Ruger. I have finally arrived at a couple loads that I am quite happy with. One for the NOE 429421 mold using Blue Dot, and one for the LEE RNFP 200gr using IMR 4227. After reviewing my targets I have decided to block the offending chamber with a fired, cleaned,deprimed, flared mouth case. The flared mouth will hold the case in place so it won't easily eject during a shooting session, and will insure that I don't use that chamber. Because it is only one chamber, I can simply load traditionally, load 1, skip 1, load 4.

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Ed Harris posted this 03 October 2013

I would be curious to see what the revolver does if you would cast some of your #42941 bullets soft, no harder than 10 BHN, 8 BHN or 1:30 tin/lead being perfect if you have it. Shoot them as-cast and unsized, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox with 4.5 to 5.0 grains of Bullseye.

Mild loads in that 720-750 fps range have always shot very well for me, under 2” at 25 yards from my RBH and nearly as well from an S&W 3rd Model Hand Ejector which I sold, and don't regret, as I got a good price for it. My S&W Hand Ejector now is a .45 ACP, which I actually prefer to a .44 Spl., but I admit that I am a heretic!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

Just a comment about the general approach to things. When a shooter is hopping from one powder to another and one bullet to another like a jack rabbit, I don't know what can be learned about potential accuracy of a sixgun.

I choose one powder and one bullets and work up and down with the charge weight, until I am certain, I have found the best load. Only then will I change bullets and/or powders. I hold the opinion that a linear approach to these things produces more information and better results.

The years have taught me that finding a good load with Bulleye or Unique is not that hard. When a handgun and load will shoot better than I can hold, I see not much reason to buy more powders to play with.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

Ed, I don't know how many heritics it takes to make a cult, but I am not a particular fan of the 44 Special ctg. I have not found it to be the wonder rounds that some feel it is. Over the years I have had a half dozen and could never fine a reason for them to hang around. I do have three 45 ACP H.E. though.

I did hang on to one 44 HE as it had been over the bench at Micro with all the bells and whistles.

Here is it, along with an even better HE in 45 ACP.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

Oops..here are the pics..

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

Lost the connection..now the 45

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

Chargar wrote: Lost the connection..now the 45

I carried a Bulldog (44spl) off duty for some years before it failed in a manner that convinced me it was time to let it to. It always helped me cut down on excess calibers.

But while I had it, shot several concealed carry matches with in (vs the LW Commander I used to carry). it typically performed well, I do like the caliber, but what's the point when you load and shoot a lot of 45.

I'm an auto guy, but those hand ejector Smiths are really nice.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

I am sorry , maybe you misunderstand. I have not been “hopping from powder to powder", at least in the manner in which you may perceive. I began with two bullets, a NOE 429421 and the LEE LRNFP 200gr. I then proceeded to methodically work up loads for each of the powders that I have on hand in quantity that may be suitable, without trying to locate something new. If I found that  nothing could be found successful with what I have on hand, THEN I would not have been adverse to trying a can of Red Dot or Bullseye or Unique, provided they could be found locally in single pound quantity.  I worked each powder up from start loads to max over a chrony at an outdoor range that I can get to on occaision. Then, knowing the velocity for a given load, chose the most promising to proceed further. I have a large quantity of IMR PB that I use for my 16ga 2.5” chambered  Browning A5 and Stevens Trap Single. I have a quantity of Blue Dot that I use for my 16ga hunting loads. I have some IMR 4277 from a local dealer getting out of selling powder. I have kegs of 5744 for my cast bullet loads for rifle. I did get some wonderful shooting in my Uberti 45 Colt with a LEE 255gr RNFP and 5744, though it left far too much unburned powder in the 44spl to persue further.  I also have 2 kegs of AA#2  most useful for  my 40SW and 7.65 Browning <32acp> loads. I am not a real great handgun shot, but do best with non-magnum calibers/loads. The last 2 targets shown in my post have adequate power accuracy  for my projected need for carry while backpacking and hiking. I will probably shoot the 200gr RNFP quite a bit now to gain more proficiency. The MAIN issue with this gun all along has been the 1 obvious flyer out of 6 accompanied by the alloy flashing on one particular chamber. I have NOT been looking for help on how to develop an accurate load. I do know how to do that whether you believe it or not. The thread was to discuss the problems that I have been seeing in regard to the flyer, the response from Ruger with no resolution to the real problem , and what I have decided to do in order to make this gun workable for what I need and to enable me to keep and to carry this revolver with confidence.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: I made up a few different loads with IMR PB, Blue Dot, SR7625,HERCO, AA#2 and HP38, and hit the outdoor range at 25yds.

Sometimes words choice makes a difference I guess “hopping” was not to your liking. Perhaps I should have said trying multiple powders at one time.

It was a bad choice, but changing powders six times at one range session created the image in my mind of a hopping rabbit. I would have to camp at the range for several days to use six powders. I tend to see pictures in my mind, when I read things. Sorry for the offense, it was unintentional.

I do stick by the substance of the post about working the limits of one powder before going to another powder and another bullet. I tend to be methodical and linear, for such is my nature.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

In reply to another post here , the bullets all throughout the thread have been cast with either 1: 16 , 1:20 or 1: 30 tin/lead. The bullets shot in the last two targets were cast from 1:30 tin:lead. On same that day I also chrony'd a very encouraging work up with Blue Dot and the LEE 200gr RNFP with velocities running up to around 1000 fps with good accuracy. I will likely go to a Blue Dot load with this bullet after I use up the IMR 4227.

There was only a faint trace of leading in the bore after 70 rounds fired in the 3 series of loads shot that day.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh wrote:

I carried a Bulldog (44spl) off duty for some years before it failed in a manner that convinced me it was time to let it to. It always helped me cut down on excess calibers.

But while I had it, shot several concealed carry matches with in (vs the LW Commander I used to carry). it typically performed well, I do like the caliber, but what's the point when you load and shoot a lot of 45.

I'm an auto guy, but those hand ejector Smiths are really nice.

I have had several LW Commanders over the years, but I guess I am snake bit for I have never found one that gave me the reliability I wanted. One the other hand I have been shooting various full size 1911s since 1961 and have had many that were ultra reliable. I have three good ones now. This Norinco is a favorite. Colt barrel, King/Brown sights and a worked over trigger. I have another Norinco and a fancy Colt GM. Since this pic, I have installed a Colt long trigger, as the arthritis in my hand increases yearly. Grips are good Texas mesquite, what else? I really like the 45 ACP round in sixguns or autopistols.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

Chargar, thanks for your clarification. Unfortunately, the days of being able to casually work up a single series of a given powder/bullet combination are pretty much gone for me, and many other here in Connecticut. Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations So what I usually wind up doing is making plans that are often changed at the last minute, loading 6, 12, or 18 rounds of each load increment for each bullet / powder combination of interest, and trying to be as methodical as possible, making judgements of when to discontinue a workup due to shotgun pattern accuracy or high chrony speeds, while trying to keep the gun from overheating, and still have fun.

When working up a rifle load, I do  try to take only that rifle and the one series of bullet/powder to check out. I have indeed found things to become very hurried, confusing, and unprofitable with multiple loads on the same day with a long gun.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: Chargar, thanks for your clarification. Unfortunately, the days of being able to casually work up a single series of a given powder/bullet combination are pretty much gone for me, and many other here in Connecticut. Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations So what I usually wind up doing is making plans that are often changed at the last minute, loading 6, 12, or 18 rounds of each load increment for each bullet / powder combination of interest, and trying to be as methodical as possible, making judgements of when to discontinue a workup due to shotgun pattern accuracy or high chrony speeds, while trying to keep the gun from overheating, and still have fun.

When working up a rifle load, I do  try to take only that rifle and the one series of bullet/powder to check out. I have indeed found things to become very hurried, confusing, and unprofitable with multiple loads on the same day with a long gun.

Not so sure you want to get me start talking about .45's. One of Jeff Cooper's instructors talked me into dumping my Hi Power and getting a Colt 70 series in 75 or 76. Never turned back. Carried an 80 series on duty after we took out all the monkey motion junk. Started shooting early IPSC (Jeff Cooper days) in 76. Have a classic 1911A1 NM that someone gave me for Xmas. Great shooter, but it time I'll do the typical mods we did to all our guns. Never had a problem with a LWC because from square one, we knew what mods to make and then you just shoot them in (typically 500 rounds). In the time I've had the 1911, lot of wear!

But I"m cranky about 45's, one of these days, I want to get a Les Baer. Knew him from when he was just getting started with 45s. That's a LONG time ago, but I know the quality of his products.

PS the pic is with that old 1911, and yes that's 100 yards.

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

Nope, never had to use it for that one (it would have worked fine with the ammo I was using), but, in the older Bulldogs there was (if memory servers) two pins holding the top end of the pistol to the bottom end (trigger housing and butt).

Practicing at the range and fired a round. Top end of the pistol flopped over and backwards (muzzle towards me)because one of the pins sheared and it pivoted on the back pin towards me.

Charter fixed it immediately, but that pretty well convinced me it was time to move back to my LWC and I did.

I do know of at least 1 shooting where a 44 spl was using by an officer (friend of mine) and the caliber worked pretty much like a .45acp. I don't remember the actual sidearm he used, that was a long time ago.

But it's shot placement and even the short barreled Colt OM's work just fine if you use it right (shot placement).

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh wrote: offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

Nope, never had to use it for that one (it would have worked fine with the ammo I was using), but, in the older Bulldogs there was (if memory servers) two pins holding the top end of the pistol to the bottom end (trigger housing and butt).

Practicing at the range and fired a round. Top end of the pistol flopped over and backwards (muzzle towards me)because one of the pins sheared and it pivoted on the back pin towards me.

Charter fixed it immediately, but that pretty well convinced me it was time to move back to my LWC and I did.

I do know of at least 1 shooting where a 44 spl was using by an officer (friend of mine) and the caliber worked pretty much like a .45acp. I don't remember the actual sidearm he used, that was a long time ago.

But it's shot placement and even the short barreled Colt OM's work just fine if you use it right (shot placement). One last note, first shooting I was in on duty was with an S&W Model 59, 9mm, we were so pissed off about the performance (one that led Winchester to recall the first gen silvertips) that we went series 80.

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

PPPS, I tend to use 2 types of ammo for serious intercourse. Obviously a good hollow point and second originally was the Hornady Truncated flat nose (which they no longer make), but if you load the Nosler flat point (I can look up the bullet Product number if you like) with 5.8 of 231, works really well against cars. I know, I've tested it and it's proven in the field, where it stopped a 450SL with one shot. Another friend of mine and in those days, hand loads weren't a serious offense. They never checked the ammo on that one. last note on the Bulldog, it was an off duty carry gun (why I went reserve, I got grandfathered in to carry off duty). I did have one person dead to rights with the LWC, but didn't. Cuffed him and called a unit for pickup. Hated the paperwork on that one.

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Uncle Russ posted this 05 October 2013

Ed;
On the pic with the pretty .45 S&W Hand Ejector, did you get that ammo when it was new? If not and it's your carry ammo, even as a rookie I would suggest a fresher batch. Just an observation.
Always enjoy your write ups and comments. Wife's side of the family are mostly all Law Enforcement of one flavor or another (and shooters)so I enjoy the stories.

Keep 'em coming, :thumbsup:
Russ

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Ed Harris posted this 05 October 2013

The FA34 Ball in half-moons came out of an estate grouping I bought, mostly as photo props, but there was enough to shoot for velocity and group.

The FA34 did have a few hang firez and missfires, but the Peters Ctg. Co. 1918 and 1927 was accurate and sure-fire, and I shot up the uglier rounds for practice, keeping the prettier ones for the collection.

My carry ammo is fresh Federal 45D 230-grain JHP!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Uncle Russ posted this 05 October 2013

Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

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rojkoh posted this 05 October 2013

Uncle Russ wrote: Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

Boxed in the can or loose rounds? Corroded or not?

It is corrosive ammo. Ask Ed about cleaning after using it.

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Uncle Russ posted this 06 October 2013

The ammo was loose in a WWII style ammo can which is why I spotted it sitting on the floor behind the counter. Can was marked FA .30 BALL M1.

I am aware of the corrosive part as I have shot a lot of surplus BANG, BANG, ammo.

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Ed Harris posted this 06 October 2013

Uncle Russ wrote: Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

I have several hundred rounds of FA34 Ball M1 and have been shooting the stuff in my Springfields and Winchester 54s. It is good ammo, as long as you take the normal precautions for cleaning after chlorate primers. The brass is wonderful, I just decap and wash in soapy water, swage the primer pockets then size and trim as normal. Makes it easy to keep separate for the old rifles.

The stuff isn't so rare that has any great collector value more than common .30'06 ammo. If you have pristine full boxes which aren't falling apart, collectors will pay about $30, or $1 for individual clean rounds. I paid $15 a box for 400 rounds from a WW2 vet a year ago, but intended originally to pull it down for components, but shot some in the '03 and decided to keep it as “Reference” ammo for testing old classic pre-war boltguns with period ammo.

Older US .30-'06 ammo before the mid-1930s had frequent problems with case splits and cracked necks, because the arsenals hadn't figured out the proper stress relief. The clue is that if the neck and shoulder show visible anneal colors, then it is OK.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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hunterspistol posted this 14 December 2013

:coffee  Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations

     Wow, have my sympathy for your world changing like that.   You'd think we'd be more modern than all these anti-gun regulations.  I guess they can't stand the noise.

      Ron

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rojkoh posted this 14 December 2013

Well there's some of this really old .45acp here and I'd need someone that can read hieroglyphics to ascertain the head stamp! ;) No, not going to shoot it! :P

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