Ruger 44 Special Problems.....

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Last Post 14 December 2013

CBA Member

offhand35 posted this 11 January 2013

Well I had proven to myself over the years that I don't shoot magnums very well, and decided to try the 44 Special by getting one of the new Ruger Flattops. I got a NOE 429421 mold from someone here, as that bullet seems like the cat's meow to at least one of my favorite gun writers....And it makes some REALLY fine bullets from 30:1 22LR range scrap and tin.... I made up a few different loads with IMR PB, Blue Dot, SR7625,HERCO, AA#2 and HP38, and hit the outdoor range at 25yds. I was not so pleased with my groups, but decided that even though I had chosen mid-range loads, they did seem a little hotter than I had expected. I did not have my Chrony with me, I had decided to find something that shot well for me 1st, then Chrony. I made up some more but lighter loads and made another trip to the outdoor range . I saw great improvement, but still had at 2 bad fliers per 12 rounds with each load. So I decided to try the LEE 429-200RF as well in case it is the revolver not liking the 429421's, and made up a few loads a little lower than listed start loads for Blue Dot, IMR PB, and SR7625. I had a chance to get to an indoor range much closer to home yesterday after work, so I tried these at 25-30ft instead of the full 50 ft available, just to see what I could get. I had gotten into the habit of the old sixgun loading of load 1,skip 1, load 4. which seemed to work for me as I loaded 10 rounds of each of 3 loads for the two bullets..... I am posting 3 of my indoor targets and a photo of the uncleaned cylinder ....the flyers are VERY apparent in the 25ft and 30ft targets, though because I did not load 6 each time, the “bad” chamber may not have been fired each loading......It looks like I have one chamber that is badly out of time, with possibly two others not so good.... The cylinder photo is from one of the first outings. My pro level camera died since, and I am not able to get a decent image of the cylinder from last night's session with my spare camera. From last night's session, the lead ring on the chamber is even more pronounced, along with a chunk plating the front of the cylinder just below the chamber mouth. I felt a spit of debris and something touched my safety glasses on one round, and that was probably it. Target #2 shows a wild hole at the top, but looks like a smaller caliber, I suspect the individual at the next lane shooting a 9mm did that......but it still shows the flyer, that would show up badly at 25 yds. I am making plans to call Ruger today......

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rojkoh posted this 14 December 2013

Well there's some of this really old .45acp here and I'd need someone that can read hieroglyphics to ascertain the head stamp! ;) No, not going to shoot it! :P

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hunterspistol posted this 14 December 2013

:coffee Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations

Wow, have my sympathy for your world changing like that. You'd think we'd be more modern than all these anti-gun regulations. I guess they can't stand the noise.

Ron

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Ed Harris posted this 06 October 2013

Uncle Russ wrote: Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

I have several hundred rounds of FA34 Ball M1 and have been shooting the stuff in my Springfields and Winchester 54s. It is good ammo, as long as you take the normal precautions for cleaning after chlorate primers. The brass is wonderful, I just decap and wash in soapy water, swage the primer pockets then size and trim as normal. Makes it easy to keep separate for the old rifles.

The stuff isn't so rare that has any great collector value more than common .30'06 ammo. If you have pristine full boxes which aren't falling apart, collectors will pay about $30, or $1 for individual clean rounds. I paid $15 a box for 400 rounds from a WW2 vet a year ago, but intended originally to pull it down for components, but shot some in the '03 and decided to keep it as “Reference” ammo for testing old classic pre-war boltguns with period ammo.

Older US .30-'06 ammo before the mid-1930s had frequent problems with case splits and cracked necks, because the arsenals hadn't figured out the proper stress relief. The clue is that if the neck and shoulder show visible anneal colors, then it is OK.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Uncle Russ posted this 06 October 2013

The ammo was loose in a WWII style ammo can which is why I spotted it sitting on the floor behind the counter. Can was marked FA .30 BALL M1.

I am aware of the corrosive part as I have shot a lot of surplus BANG, BANG, ammo.

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rojkoh posted this 05 October 2013

Uncle Russ wrote: Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

Boxed in the can or loose rounds? Corroded or not?

It is corrosive ammo. Ask Ed about cleaning after using it.

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CBA Member

Uncle Russ posted this 05 October 2013

Ed: Your previous post made me think of something.

Knowing I like old stuff to collect, a gunsmith friend of mine gave me about a half a can of FA 38, .30 cal Ball with stipulation of “Now don't go trying to shoot that stuff."

Any ideas why it came with that caveat?

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 05 October 2013

The FA34 Ball in half-moons came out of an estate grouping I bought, mostly as photo props, but there was enough to shoot for velocity and group.

The FA34 did have a few hang firez and missfires, but the Peters Ctg. Co. 1918 and 1927 was accurate and sure-fire, and I shot up the uglier rounds for practice, keeping the prettier ones for the collection.

My carry ammo is fresh Federal 45D 230-grain JHP!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Uncle Russ posted this 05 October 2013

Ed;
On the pic with the pretty .45 S&W Hand Ejector, did you get that ammo when it was new? If not and it's your carry ammo, even as a rookie I would suggest a fresher batch. Just an observation.
Always enjoy your write ups and comments. Wife's side of the family are mostly all Law Enforcement of one flavor or another (and shooters)so I enjoy the stories.

Keep 'em coming, :thumbsup:
Russ

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

PPPS, I tend to use 2 types of ammo for serious intercourse. Obviously a good hollow point and second originally was the Hornady Truncated flat nose (which they no longer make), but if you load the Nosler flat point (I can look up the bullet Product number if you like) with 5.8 of 231, works really well against cars. I know, I've tested it and it's proven in the field, where it stopped a 450SL with one shot. Another friend of mine and in those days, hand loads weren't a serious offense. They never checked the ammo on that one. last note on the Bulldog, it was an off duty carry gun (why I went reserve, I got grandfathered in to carry off duty). I did have one person dead to rights with the LWC, but didn't. Cuffed him and called a unit for pickup. Hated the paperwork on that one.

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh wrote: offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

Nope, never had to use it for that one (it would have worked fine with the ammo I was using), but, in the older Bulldogs there was (if memory servers) two pins holding the top end of the pistol to the bottom end (trigger housing and butt).

Practicing at the range and fired a round. Top end of the pistol flopped over and backwards (muzzle towards me)because one of the pins sheared and it pivoted on the back pin towards me.

Charter fixed it immediately, but that pretty well convinced me it was time to move back to my LWC and I did.

I do know of at least 1 shooting where a 44 spl was using by an officer (friend of mine) and the caliber worked pretty much like a .45acp. I don't remember the actual sidearm he used, that was a long time ago.

But it's shot placement and even the short barreled Colt OM's work just fine if you use it right (shot placement). One last note, first shooting I was in on duty was with an S&W Model 59, 9mm, we were so pissed off about the performance (one that led Winchester to recall the first gen silvertips) that we went series 80.

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

Practicing at the range and fired a round. Top end of the pistol flopped over and backwards (muzzle towards me)because one of the pins sheared and it pivoted on the back pin towards me.

Charter fixed it immediately, but that pretty well convinced me it was time to move back to my LWC and I did.

But it's shot placement and even the short barreled Colt OM's work just fine if you use it right (shot placement).

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: Chargar, thanks for your clarification. Unfortunately, the days of being able to casually work up a single series of a given powder/bullet combination are pretty much gone for me, and many other here in Connecticut. Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations So what I usually wind up doing is making plans that are often changed at the last minute, loading 6, 12, or 18 rounds of each load increment for each bullet / powder combination of interest, and trying to be as methodical as possible, making judgements of when to discontinue a workup due to shotgun pattern accuracy or high chrony speeds, while trying to keep the gun from overheating, and still have fun.

When working up a rifle load, I doÃ‚Â try to take only that rifle and the one series of bullet/powder to check out. I have indeed found things to become very hurried, confusing, and unprofitable with multiple loads on the same day with a long gun.

Not so sure you want to get me start talking about .45's. One of Jeff Cooper's instructors talked me into dumping my Hi Power and getting a Colt 70 series in 75 or 76. Never turned back. Carried an 80 series on duty after we took out all the monkey motion junk. Started shooting early IPSC (Jeff Cooper days) in 76. Have a classic 1911A1 NM that someone gave me for Xmas. Great shooter, but it time I'll do the typical mods we did to all our guns. Never had a problem with a LWC because from square one, we knew what mods to make and then you just shoot them in (typically 500 rounds). In the time I've had the 1911, lot of wear!

But I"m cranky about 45's, one of these days, I want to get a Les Baer. Knew him from when he was just getting started with 45s. That's a LONG time ago, but I know the quality of his products.

PS the pic is with that old 1911, and yes that's 100 yards.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh, what happened re: the Bulldog? Did it not stop a bad guy?

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

Chargar, thanks for your clarification. Unfortunately, the days of being able to casually work up a single series of a given powder/bullet combination are pretty much gone for me, and many other here in Connecticut. Before my company put in writing a policy against firearms for any purpose in company vehicles subject to termination, I used to stop at a range between job sites or after the day was done to check out my latest project. Or stop off at my friend's 60 acre sand lot with a chrony and a target. Our town just enacted an antigun ordinance agaist private shooting on such properties that may be less than 1/2 mile from a school so that is now gone. Weekend range time at the main 7 day/week range here in CT is now $37 the 1st hr, and $37 for a full day on a weekday, and that is an hour away. The other outdoor public range much closer is only open 3 afternoons a week at $20 for the afternoon. Getting there is always subject to cancellation due to family obligations So what I usually wind up doing is making plans that are often changed at the last minute, loading 6, 12, or 18 rounds of each load increment for each bullet / powder combination of interest, and trying to be as methodical as possible, making judgements of when to discontinue a workup due to shotgun pattern accuracy or high chrony speeds, while trying to keep the gun from overheating, and still have fun.

When working up a rifle load, I do try to take only that rifle and the one series of bullet/powder to check out. I have indeed found things to become very hurried, confusing, and unprofitable with multiple loads on the same day with a long gun.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

rojkoh wrote:

I carried a Bulldog (44spl) off duty for some years before it failed in a manner that convinced me it was time to let it to. It always helped me cut down on excess calibers.

But while I had it, shot several concealed carry matches with in (vs the LW Commander I used to carry). it typically performed well, I do like the caliber, but what's the point when you load and shoot a lot of 45.

I'm an auto guy, but those hand ejector Smiths are really nice.

I have had several LW Commanders over the years, but I guess I am snake bit for I have never found one that gave me the reliability I wanted. One the other hand I have been shooting various full size 1911s since 1961 and have had many that were ultra reliable. I have three good ones now. This Norinco is a favorite. Colt barrel, King/Brown sights and a worked over trigger. I have another Norinco and a fancy Colt GM. Since this pic, I have installed a Colt long trigger, as the arthritis in my hand increases yearly. Grips are good Texas mesquite, what else? I really like the 45 ACP round in sixguns or autopistols.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

In reply to another post here , the bullets all throughout the thread have been cast with either 1: 16 , 1:20 or 1: 30 tin/lead. The bullets shot in the last two targets were cast from 1:30 tin:lead. On same that day I also chrony'd a very encouraging work up with Blue Dot and the LEE 200gr RNFP with velocities running up to around 1000 fps with good accuracy. I will likely go to a Blue Dot load with this bullet after I use up the IMR 4227.

There was only a faint trace of leading in the bore after 70 rounds fired in the 3 series of loads shot that day.

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Chargar posted this 03 October 2013

offhand35 wrote: I made up a few different loads with IMR PB, Blue Dot, SR7625,HERCO, AA#2 and HP38, and hit the outdoor range at 25yds.

Sometimes words choice makes a difference I guess “hopping” was not to your liking. Perhaps I should have said trying multiple powders at one time.

It was a bad choice, but changing powders six times at one range session created the image in my mind of a hopping rabbit. I would have to camp at the range for several days to use six powders. I tend to see pictures in my mind, when I read things. Sorry for the offense, it was unintentional.

I do stick by the substance of the post about working the limits of one powder before going to another powder and another bullet. I tend to be methodical and linear, for such is my nature.

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offhand35 posted this 03 October 2013

I am sorry , maybe you misunderstand. I have not been “hopping from powder to powder", at least in the manner in which you may perceive. I began with two bullets, a NOE 429421 and the LEE LRNFP 200gr. I then proceeded to methodically work up loads for each of the powders that I have on hand in quantity that may be suitable, without trying to locate something new. If I found that nothing could be found successful with what I have on hand, THEN I would not have been adverse to trying a can of Red Dot or Bullseye or Unique, provided they could be found locally in single pound quantity. I worked each powder up from start loads to max over a chrony at an outdoor range that I can get to on occaision. Then, knowing the velocity for a given load, chose the most promising to proceed further. I have a large quantity of IMR PB that I use for my 16ga 2.5” chambered Browning A5 and Stevens Trap Single. I have a quantity of Blue Dot that I use for my 16ga hunting loads. I have some IMR 4277 from a local dealer getting out of selling powder. I have kegs of 5744 for my cast bullet loads for rifle. I did get some wonderful shooting in my Uberti 45 Colt with a LEE 255gr RNFP and 5744, though it left far too much unburned powder in the 44spl to persue further. I also have 2 kegs of AA#2 most useful for my 40SW and 7.65 Browning <32acp> loads. I am not a real great handgun shot, but do best with non-magnum calibers/loads. The last 2 targets shown in my post have adequate power accuracy for my projected need for carry while backpacking and hiking. I will probably shoot the 200gr RNFP quite a bit now to gain more proficiency. The MAIN issue with this gun all along has been the 1 obvious flyer out of 6 accompanied by the alloy flashing on one particular chamber. I have NOT been looking for help on how to develop an accurate load. I do know how to do that whether you believe it or not. The thread was to discuss the problems that I have been seeing in regard to the flyer, the response from Ruger with no resolution to the real problem , and what I have decided to do in order to make this gun workable for what I need and to enable me to keep and to carry this revolver with confidence.

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rojkoh posted this 03 October 2013

Chargar wrote: Lost the connection..now the 45

I carried a Bulldog (44spl) off duty for some years before it failed in a manner that convinced me it was time to let it to. It always helped me cut down on excess calibers.

I'm an auto guy, but those hand ejector Smiths are really nice.