Best Available Replacement For 5744

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pat i posted this 3 weeks ago

Im sure this has been discussed a bunch of times but things change. A friend asked me what was the best replacement for 5744. Since I have no clue maybe someone can give me some information to pass along. Thanks.

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John Carlson posted this 3 weeks ago

Shooters World Buffalo Rifle was a good choice but that is also NLA. Don't know of anything currently available.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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Aaron posted this 3 weeks ago

Shooters World Buffalo Rifle is a close as you will get to 5744. It's made to the same performance spec as 5744. They duplicated 5744 in the closed bomb tests. It's also much less expensive than A5744.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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tomme boy posted this 3 weeks ago

4198 of whatever flavor you like.

5744 has been made by at least 3 companies. Lovex was one of them so they are actually making one version of the real 5744 sold as Buffalo Rifle.

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Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

Pat, could I ask if the question being asked is for general cast loading or for a specific caliber?

Up until the end of 2025 I would have recommended N110 but for whatever reason it’s been giving headaches this year with its need for a warm to hot barrel before it shot groups. I gave up trying to figure that one out, just not smart enough.

My experience with N110 may be an isolated incident because I think it was Glen who had luck with it in military class.

With a .308 & a 200 grain bullet, 5744 laddered up nicely with about 7 to 10fps per .1 grain between 1640 and 1700 but it topped out (lost ability for an efficient burn) around 1710.

N110 did about the same 7-10fps per .1 grain but it burned consistently through 1760fps.

At one time I thought that an even consistent progressive burn was important to accuracy. I’m not so sure anymore.

At one time I thought N110 was going to be a near one for one 5744 replacement. Now I’m confused as to why it shoots one or two 10 shot patterns before it starts shootings groups. It takes only 10-12 patches and 20-30 brush strokes to clean the bore after 30 shots or after 300 shots. It looks like it burns clean.

I think cost has to be factored in as well. I’ve been using I4227 the last two trips, seemed like it would work so I got a jug of it from Bruno’s for $330. I think N110 sells for about the same.

Great topic Pat. Bill Cook.

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pat i posted this 3 weeks ago

Bill the cartridge is the .30 Whitetail which from what I've read is an 1.400 long case with a 40 degree shoulder formed from 6 BR cases. To comply with these stupid hunting regulations we have in Illinois I think a bottle necked case has to be no longer than 1.400 in. Maybe the same applies to straight cases but I don't know.He doesn't shoot cast bullets but according to him 5744 works very well in the gun.

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Ed Harris posted this 3 weeks ago

+1 on 4198. I use it as a replacement for RL7 in the .32-20 and .44-40. Also Works in revolvers when loading a nominal case full with light compression and a somewhat heavy bullet for the caliber, 115-120 grain in .32-20 and 230-240 grain in the .44-40.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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delmarskid posted this 3 weeks ago

4198 works well in my 30br.

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Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

“….. bottle necked case has to be no longer than 1.400 in”…

Pat, that idea must have come from the same group that drew up plans for the creation of the platypus. In what world would that make sense.

Is it possible that only the 300 Blackout is legal in Illinois is a legal bottleneck cartridge in Illinois?

Maybe give V135 a try? I think that rules the 30 BR in heavy & unlimited. Don’t the 30BR users use a full case of powder? And I think they run them >2100 fps. I can’t recall the weight of the bullets they use.

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pat i posted this 3 weeks ago

Bill he only shoots jacketed bullets in the 110 to 130 weight range. I recommended trying 4198 when he first asked me about powder. He said it works good for heavier bullets not as well for the weights he shoots.

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OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

Somewhere along the line IMR changed their 4198. The older 4198 shot more accurately,but metered worse. This long skinny extruded powder was difficult to meter and must be weighed. The newer IMR (or whatever you call new company) is not as good IMO. Hodgden version may be the same as their old?

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Wilderness posted this 3 weeks ago

My understanding is that Hodgdon 4198 is Australian ADI 2207. Most obvious difference will be less graphite, hence powder not so black, with a slight yellowish cast. Applies to other ADI rifle powders as well, right back to 2201.

You are only as good as your library.

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Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

Pat, any chance you have access to both a .30 Whitetail and a .30BR case? I believe the .30BR case has a case capacity of 41 grains of water. Thanks, Bill C.

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Hamish posted this 2 weeks ago

Been a while since I have stopped by, interesting that the first thing I see is this so-called “30 Whitetail”.

i don’t know what kind of BS they’re trying to pull, but it’s nothing but a blatant copy of the .30 Bellm cartridge, which Mike Bellm created probably 30 years ago, as an Illinois specific deer hunting cartridge, one of two bottle neck cartridges allowed under the initial handgun hunting regulations alongside the .300 Whisper.

1.4 inches, made from BR brass, 40 degree Ackley Improved neck. (Bellm apprenticed under P.O. Ackley)

This is the same slimy move that Winchester made copying Moleman’s work with .35 cast bullets in blown out .223 brass and “introducing” the 350 Legend.

3031 is THE powder, almost irregardless of bullet size in the 110 to 150 range, followed by 4198.

I have been shooting an XP-100 in 30 Bellm for many years.

Now I will say this, by the picture I’ve seen of the “30 whitetail”, if they’ve pushed the shoulder back to maintain neck length, (30 Bellm has a short neck from blowing out the shoulder to 40* and trimming the neck back to 1.4&rdquo then the 30 Whitetail will have less case capacity than the 30 Bellm, which was the whole point, 110’s at close to 2700 fps.