Ruger New Model Blackhawk Flat-Top Convertible .45

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Ed Harris posted this 20 December 2012

Just picked up a Ruger New Model Blackhawk .45 on the “medium” flat-top frame, as as used for the new Vaqueros.

It is blued, 4-5/8” barrel with both .45 Colt and ACP cylinders, light alloy XR3 grip frame and Micro rear sight. Just like the 50-year .357 models, except bigger holes. This guy weighs 36 ozs.

Cylinder throats in both cylinders are right at .452", groove diameter slugs at .4505", twist is 16 inches. Cylinder gap 0.006".

Took it to the range the other day blowing away some odds and ends of .45 Colt loads I had for the New Service, but it is apparent I'm going to have to size bullets for this one, as the .455 as-cast is asking alot to size in the cylinder driving them through with 6.5 grains of Bullseye.

Have got more test loads assembled with .452 bullets, but waiting for some Pachmayr rubber grips to arrive, because with the tiny grips for Cowboy mouse fart loads which came on this thing it is unpleasant to shoot with full loads.

Anybody else had their hands on one of these, just curious. More detailed range report and eye candy to follow.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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R. Dupraz posted this 20 December 2012

Ed:

Don't have exactly what you've got but there is a stainless steel New Vaquero .45 Long Colt 4 5/8” laying right beside me as I write. Have had it for a while now and it likes the Lyman 454190 250 gr with seven grains of Unique right well. Near as I can remember, I size to .452"

You're right about the small grips, Dang thing rapped the second finger smartly untill I started moving my little finger under the grip when I fired it. Never thought of trying some Pachmayrs.

RD

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Ed Harris posted this 20 December 2012

Yeah, wrapping the little finger did no good at all with 260-gr. bullet and 6.5 grains of Bullseye at about 900 fps!

Got some Starline Schofield brass to try for lighter loads, easy to keep separate. So far 5 grains of Bullseye with 230-gr. Saeco #954 shows promise, unsized .455", 12 BHN tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox bullets averaging 2.36” at 25 yards. Think properly sized may do better.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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R. Dupraz posted this 20 December 2012

2.36” at the 25, not bad at all. The front sight on my Vaquero likes to play the disappearing act all the time. I'm an old bulls eye shooter left over from the sixties. But I can still hold my own at 20 yds off hand most of the time. Think this .45 would probaly shoot as well from what Iv'e seen.

RD

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Ed Harris posted this 21 December 2012

Break out the carbide lamp and give it a go.

The 2.36” avg. is sandbagged, of course.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Michael K posted this 21 December 2012

Hi Ed,

I have had a 5.5” BH for about 10yrs and finally made it around to getting the cylinders reamed to a uniform .4525". In looking back at my old load data and the various loads have I tried, most shoot right around 3” at 25yds. A few were better, a few more were worse. 45 ACPs actually shot better than the Colt. I have not gone back and reshot my data after the cylinder work. I fully expect to see some different results from both cylinders.

With standard factory equivalent 250-255gr loads it is all anyone would want shoot for an extended period of time. Full house 125gr or 158gr 357s from a 686 seem tame in comparison. Moving up to the Ruger/TC loads, it is a handfull. Upper end 240gr loads from my 44 SHR are more comfortable to shoot.

If you have not already done so, spend some time shooting the 45ACP cylinder. The is something unique about that round in the BH. Call it silly but there something about how everything comes together between the weight, balance, center of gravity, recoil, grips, etc., I can only describe it with one word. Fun. Other shooters that I have told this to have looked at me as if I was completely nuts, that is until they shot it. They to have described it as something completely different from what they expected, and “fun". Even those who own other Colt and S&W revolvers in 45ACP have mentioned it as different from those other revolvers.

If you want an interesting read and have Speer's 13th edition on hand, compare the 45 Colt Ruger/TC data with the heavier bullets to their 44 Mag using similar bullet weights.

I find the BH 45Colt/ACP to be very diverse and of coarse, fun. Enjoy, Michael.

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Dale53 posted this 21 December 2012

Ed; I believe you will come to really enjoy the Ruger Convertible. Mine is a Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP and I enjoy both cylinders. I shoot a LOT of .45 ACP (mostly in my 625's) but my Bisley is a natural with all of that .45 ACP brass lying around. Here is a picture of my Bisley with the .45 ACP cylinder:

All in all, a VERY satisfying pairing up...

Dale53

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Chargar posted this 21 December 2012

I have one of the new Lipsey's Ruger Flatop 45 convertibles and think very highly of it. Like yours it has cylinder throats of .452. The barrel is a very smooth interior finish and refused to collect any lead. I also note, the interior dimensions of the charge holes are smaller that the large hog wallows that Ruger tends to produce in their 45 Colt sixguns.

The pistol is very well made and shoots far better than I can hold it. My loads are the very traditional Keith 454424/8.5/Unique. I size these bullets .452 and lube with my old home brew lube of beeswax and Vasaline.

If I can make it work, here is a pic. The SBH hammer from Midway (less than $30) makes it easier to pull the hammer with my arthritis. Neat Texas Honey Mesquite grips by Cary Chapman.

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steveco posted this 21 December 2012

What is the correct Pachmayr grip model number for the XR3 grip frame? I can only find models listed to fit the XR3-RED frame.

Thanks, Steve

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Duane Trusty posted this 22 December 2012

Charger

Did you have to modify the grip frame to fit the Super Blackhawk Hammer in the flat top.

I have the 44 special flat top ( I assume your 45 is the same intermediate frame size?) I have small hands with joint stifness so have a little stretch to reach the hammer.

Duane

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Duane Trusty posted this 22 December 2012

Ed

Not to highjack the thread, but since we are talking Ruger 45 Colt/ 45 ACP convertables, have you ever heard of anyone relieving the back of the cylinder so 45 Auto Rim could be use as well as well as the ACP?

Yes, and before someone jumps in, I know that more of the rear of the ACP case will have less support, but so it is my 625 S&W and nothing compared to chamber of my old National Match that was relieved for 45 ACP target loads.

Duane

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RicinYakima posted this 22 December 2012

Duane,

It has been done for years, I have an Old Model Blackhawk with that done. It has better support than the load ramp on a 1911, FWIW.

Ric

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Chargar posted this 22 December 2012

Duane.... The SBH hammer is a simple drop in change with no modifications of any kind to the firearm. It sure makes cocking easier on the sore thumb.

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Duane Trusty posted this 22 December 2012

Ric & Chargar

Thanks for the help, this why I like the Association and it's Forum. You get real answers from those who have been there done that, not whant to be experts.

Duane

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Ed Harris posted this 22 December 2012

Duane Trusty wrote: Not to highjack the thread, but since we are talking Ruger 45 Colt/ 45 ACP convertables, have you ever heard of anyone relieving the back of the cylinder so 45 Auto Rim could be use as well as well as the ACP?...I know that more of the rear of the ACP case will have less support, but... nothing compared to chamber of my old National Match that was relieved for 45 ACP target loads. Duane

No reason it couldn't be done, but I don't know anyone who has done it. I see no advantage unless you already have a bunch of auto-rim brass.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 22 December 2012

steveco wrote: What is the correct Pachmayr grip model number for the XR3 grip frame? I can only find models listed to fit the XR3-RED frame.Thanks, Steve

I'm not sure, I ordered online from Midway based on the gun model number. We will have to see if they fit, and if so what they are. Have email that they have been shipped, so stay tuned!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 22 December 2012

Ed,

I must live in M1917 heaven, so there is a lot of AR brass out here. Most of the ACP brass has been shot in IPSICK matches, so they pick it up and reload. The ones you find are from the pistols that has to have the brass pushed thru a form die to get the head small enough to fit into a shell holder.

Most of the local gun shops stock R-P AR brass when they make a run.

Plus, all of my loads in AR brass are light enough for Webley's, M1917, etc. They are the same pressure that I load for MkII cases for the .455.

So, if I have the Ruger BlackHawk kit out shooting, it will do with any 45 rounds I have. (I know, I shouldn't shoot the Webley cases in the 45 Colt cylinder, but they work just fine.)

Merry Christmas, Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 22 December 2012

Ric,

Haven't seen an AR case here other than Starline in years. Been playing with a new gang mold for the 265-gr. Webley Mk.II hollowbased bullet. Too long to clear the cylinder in .45 Colt brass, but works just fine in Schofield brass. Only rub is that the Schofield rims are too big to chamber in my .45 Colt H&R Handi-Gun, need to borrow somebody's .44-40 reamer to clean out the rim seat.

Left to right Saeco #954 230-gr., #955 260-gr., Webley Mk. II 265-gr. HB.

Group shot at 25 yards with Schofield brass, as-cast, unsized at .455 diameter 260-gr. Saeco #955 and 4 grains of Bullseye. Wonder how .452 sized bullets will do jumping from the short case vs. regular .45 Colts? The short .45 Cowboy Special cases are only accurate enough for plinking, 2-1/2 to 3” at 25 yards....bah! May see if they work in somebody's loose Webley and give them away.

Cartridges left to right .45 Cowboy Special (.895” case), .45 Schofield rounds with Webley Mk.II and Saeco bullets in 1.109” case, .45 Colt with Saeco bullet in 1.285” case.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Chargar posted this 22 December 2012

Some folks feel they get better accuracy out of the AR case vis-a-vi the ACP case. That may be so, but it will be due to the variation of case length in the ACP case, whereas the AR case will headspace on the rim.

If you are careful in selecting ACP case of uniform length or trim a batch to length of the shortest case, any accuracy edge of the AR cases go away.

I turned off the back of a Ruger Blackhawk cylinder to use AR cases, but it really was not worth the effort. The new smaller flatop 45 also have a smaller cylinder and you will have to pocket mill a recess if you want to use AR cases as you can't turn the back of the cylinder without removing part of the ratchet..not good.;}

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Dale53 posted this 22 December 2012

Regarding Pachmayr grips for the New Vaquero (small grip frame) - Colt SAA grips fit pretty well. Not perfect, but ok. I have these on my two flattop .44 Specials and the new Anniversary .44 Magnum flattop. Keep in mind that the Colt grips are “out of print” too, but there seems to be NIB available from a variety of sources. Of course, soon, those will dry up so suggest trying all of the places you can think of. I got mine off Ebay.

Dale53

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oscarflytyer posted this 24 December 2012

Ed

Exact same gun.  Can't get mine to shoot bad.  Got the cheap 255 grn Lee die just to get started.  Thing likes it so well - w/ variety of powders/loads - that I haven't looked at anything else.  Also did not bother to slug the cylinders/bore since the Lee did so well.  Figured I would have to, but results were good enough not to bother.

Unsized WW + 2% tin, 45/45/10 lube.  New Starline brass.  I don't normally do this - usually use used/mixed/fired brass, but had nothing in 45 Colt.

It will also shoot MiHec's 200 gr LSWC in front of 5 grns bullseye well too.  45/45/10, sized .452, mixed multi-fired/2nd hand cases w/ no special treatment...

Not going to attempt to post load data tonight for the 45 Colt.  if you are interested, let me know and be happy to share.

There is also a guy who makes some awesome Claro Walnut grips.  He cut mine to my custom specs.  $55 shipped.  Am VERY happy with them.  Glad to share that info as well.  Can also post some pix if interested.

And I have it's sister gun as well - Same thing in 44 SPC.  Same grips too.  They are a load of fun!

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