Ruger New Model Blackhawk Flat-Top Convertible .45

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  • Last Post 19 June 2013
Ed Harris posted this 20 December 2012

Just picked up a Ruger New Model Blackhawk .45 on the “medium” flat-top frame, as as used for the new Vaqueros.

It is blued, 4-5/8” barrel with both .45 Colt and ACP cylinders, light alloy XR3 grip frame and Micro rear sight. Just like the 50-year .357 models, except bigger holes. This guy weighs 36 ozs.

Cylinder throats in both cylinders are right at .452", groove diameter slugs at .4505", twist is 16 inches. Cylinder gap 0.006".

Took it to the range the other day blowing away some odds and ends of .45 Colt loads I had for the New Service, but it is apparent I'm going to have to size bullets for this one, as the .455 as-cast is asking alot to size in the cylinder driving them through with 6.5 grains of Bullseye.

Have got more test loads assembled with .452 bullets, but waiting for some Pachmayr rubber grips to arrive, because with the tiny grips for Cowboy mouse fart loads which came on this thing it is unpleasant to shoot with full loads.

Anybody else had their hands on one of these, just curious. More detailed range report and eye candy to follow.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 19 June 2013

OK I guess it's time to stop kidding.

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Chargar posted this 19 June 2013

I have used 2400 in the 45 Auto Rim case in a good 25 and 625 and it work well, if you want and need something that peppy.

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rojkoh posted this 19 June 2013

Ed Harris wrote: Agree with rojkoh,

If WST was the only powder I could get and it meant shooting or not I would use it, but new Alliant Bullseye or W231 are better.

If shooting in the Ruger Blackhawk only and no risk of putting it by accident into an M1911 an “unmentionable” charge of #2400, nominal “caseful without compression” with 240-gr. bullet gives 1000 fps in the 4-5/8” Blackhawk and 1250 in the converted Marlin lever-action....

Dude! Keep the rounds loaded with 2400 to yourself! :shock:

No tengo bulged Barrels/slide/frames. ;)

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Ed Harris posted this 19 June 2013

Agree with rojkoh,

If WST was the only powder I could get and it meant shooting or not I would use it, but new Alliant Bullseye or W231 are better.

If shooting in the Ruger Blackhawk only and no risk of putting it by accident into an M1911 an “unmentionable” charge of #2400, nominal “caseful without compression” with 240-gr. bullet gives 1000 fps in the 4-5/8” Blackhawk and 1250 in the converted Marlin lever-action....

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 18 June 2013

Gene wrote: I got one the other day, however mine is not a flattop. I've run a couple hundred rds thru the 45 ACP cylinder. My chamber throats are tight, also. I'm having to get used to shooting a SA as I usually shoot DA. It leads just a little at the FC, but I believe that's because of the tight cylinder throats.
Gene

Note: burns dirty but not quite as Bullseye does and sometimes doesn't get full ignition of the power when shot in the 1911.

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rojkoh posted this 18 June 2013

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Gene posted this 18 June 2013

I got one the other day, however mine is not a flattop. I've run a couple hundred rds thru the 45 ACP cylinder. My chamber throats are tight, also. I'm having to get used to shooting a SA as I usually shoot DA. It leads just a little at the FC, but I believe that's because of the tight cylinder throats.
Gene

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Ed Harris posted this 10 May 2013

FYI for anyone interested, did some side-by-side on the same day velocity comparisons with Alliant Bullseye vs. Winchester Super Target (WST) in the .45 ACP. These are all averages of 10-shot strings.

Powder supplies being meager, sometimes you have to use what you can get. I have plenty of Bullseye, but people have asked me about WST and having no experience with it, decided to give it a try. There is a little data on it on the Hodgdon web site and in the current Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, but little else.

Bullet-WtGrsLDRotorPdrChg.Ruger4-5/8"__Marlin22"

H&G68-200SWC#8,4.5BE821,Sd9,ES531000,Sd15,ES59 - BEST, most accurate load! Saeco954-230FN#8,4.5BE817,Sd16,ES42__982,Sd6,ES18

H&G68-200SWC#9,5.0BE_922, Sd19,ES421105,Sd12,ES36 also very accurate! Saeco954-230FN#9,5.0BE872,Sd13,ES38_1047,Sd6,ES19

H&G68-200SWC#9,4.5WST777,Sd27,ES80944, Sd14,ES43 Saeco954-230FN#94.5WST758,Sd15,ES40__889,Sd24,ES55

H&G68-200SWC#104.8WST838,Sd19,ES50990, Sd13,ES44 Saeco954-230FN#10*"*847,Sd5,ES12__940,Sd11,ES24

*Rotor #10 is the actual weight check average of ten weighed charges, which establishes the max., charge not to be exceeded in Hodgdon data with 230-gr. bullet. Other rotors are “nominal” per the RCBS Little Dandy Measure charge table.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 26 April 2013

Dale53 wrote: rmrix; I have several of the two cavity brass Cramer style moulds. They work as well as they look. I also have companion moulds (four cavity brass for solids). I am a certified “Old Fart” and with the extra manipulation required for the hollow point moulds, I find the two cavities work best for me (Mihec also makes those in four cavities). However, that is a bit much weight for me when having to manipulate them in hollow point form. On the other hand, four cavity brass works just fine for me in solid form.

Thanx Dale, sorry haven't had time to get back to you. THose bullets sure look interesting. Oh ED!

From another of us 2 “Old farts”)

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Dale53 posted this 26 April 2013

rmrix; I have several of the two cavity brass Cramer style moulds. They work as well as they look. I also have companion moulds (four cavity brass for solids). I am a certified “Old Fart” and with the extra manipulation required for the hollow point moulds, I find the two cavities work best for me (Mihec also makes those in four cavities). However, that is a bit much weight for me when having to manipulate them in hollow point form. On the other hand, four cavity brass works just fine for me in solid form.

Mihec also makes six cavity aluminum moulds. My copy of the H&G #68 casts beautifully. When I first got it, I ran it until it was properly up to heat and casting well. I set aside one mould full of bullets (one from each of the six cavities) and after I finished up I measured and weighed them. With a good Mitutoyo micrometer, they only varied in diameter .ooo2 (two tenths of a thousandth). They varied in weight only .2 of a grain. Previously, I had NEVER seen such uniformity, and I have moulds by all of the popular brands including original H&G moulds.

FWIW Dale53

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Dale53 posted this 26 April 2013

Double post...

Dale53

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rmrix posted this 25 April 2013

Dale53, Thank you for taking the time to put up the picture. It shows the detail of a very well thought out mould. I have not seen one before.  I assume it is as well made as it looks or you would not have posted the pic.

Now I want one.......

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Dale53 posted this 25 April 2013

rojkoh; I don't really understand your question. That particular bullet is from a mould by Mihec (MP Molds)that is a copy of the RCBS 45-270-SAA and is a SWC similar to a Keith (but designed by Dave Scoville) that weighs 285 grs solid in my alloy and about 270 grs hollow pointed:

http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/MiHecCramerStyleBulletMould-3207-1.jpg.html>http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/MiHecCramerStyleBulletMould-3205.jpg.html>

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rojkoh posted this 24 April 2013

Nice looking bullet, how does the Ogive check against Hardball?

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Dale53 posted this 24 April 2013

Ed; It looks like your hard work (lapping the charge holes) has paid off. For general range use of my Bisley convertible, the .45 ACP meets my needs. If I still hunted deer, then, of course, I would load up .45 Colt brass with my Mihec copy of the RCBS 45-270-SAA full charge and have at it with perfect confidence that it would do the job.

http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/LoadedRounds45-270-SAA-3735.jpg.html>

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Ed Harris posted this 24 April 2013

Here are the results firing after having lapped the .45 ACP chambers. Standard IPSC wadcutter load, H&G68 off-the-shelf commercial hard cast .452” of 92-6-2 alloy and blue lube loaded with 4.5 grains Bullseye, OAL 1.250” taper crimped to .470.” Velocity chronographed 863 fps, five consecutive 6-shot groups at 25 yards fired from sandbags. Average is 1.66". If you can't read the group sizes written on the targets they are: 1.6, 1.8, 1.8, 1.6, and 1.5 and these are SIX shot groups, excluding nothing.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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mckg posted this 12 April 2013

Ed, Thanks for the tutorial about chamfering. BTW, I think the LEE Factory Crimp Die effectively resize your bullets in order to make the “brass” fit.

When I received my gun I suddenly (sic) remembered about cylinder chambers in auto rounds: sharp edges and diameters...

"Thankfully” my Norincos 1911 hardly have any throating and their short ammo chambered in the Blackhawk (the cylindrical part of the bullets is hidden in the brass), so I kept the same dies settings.

Then I was afraid that the chambers edge would peel lead and alox and cause leading. I resized with the only die I have here (.4525) and hand lubed. I ended up with a bit of leading and blamed my home made lube and LEE's tiny lube groove (452-200-RF).

before the third session, I ran out of time and patience and loaded mostly unsized bullets, lubed with Liquid Alox. After all if they didn't work in the wheel gun the 1911's would take them. The result was only a little leading in the forcing cone (might have been there before), zero in the bore and apparently zero shaving; accuracy was very good. Puzzling, but I'll take that :).

I don't have measuring tools here, but I know that mold for dropping bullets around .4535; the cylinder throats are .452 or less.

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rojkoh posted this 12 April 2013

Ed Harris wrote: Have put the .45 Colt cylinder away for now and have started fooling with the .45 ACP cylinder.

First thing I noted was that chambers are so tight that Winchester 230 JHP factory rounds will not go far enough into the chambers to rotate the cylinder past the loading gate!

No problems with Federal 230 HydraShoks or Remington 230 grain Golden Sabres.

H&G68s which rojkoh loaded for his M1911A1 National Match pistol won't go in either, nor will my handloads with Saeco #954 Cowboy bullets which I use with full moons in my S&W 625 or S&W 3rd Model Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Military.

Nor will the Winchester HPs I tried in it. Seating depth on the H&Gs varied from 1.258 to 1.248 for the Para-ord given some of those * H&Gs we first tried. (YUK)

Besides, those H&Gs were loaded with (eek!) 231 :P

Check the Nosler reloading book, 231 is noted for “The most accurate powder". :P

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Ed Harris posted this 12 April 2013

Have put the .45 Colt cylinder away for now and have started fooling with the .45 ACP cylinder.

First thing I noted was that chambers are so tight that Winchester 230 JHP factory rounds will not go far enough into the chambers to rotate the cylinder past the loading gate!

No problems with Federal 230 HydraShoks or Remington 230 grain Golden Sabres.

H&G68s which rojkoh loaded for his M1911A1 National Match pistol won't go in either, nor will my handloads with Saeco #954 Cowboy bullets which I use with full moons in my S&W 625 or S&W 3rd Model Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Military.

Seating the Cowboy bullet handloads so that the crimp groove is no longer visible, and taper crimping to .470” mouth diameter they will go in, but the as-cast, unsized bullets forced through the Lee Factory Crimp Die do not shoot as well as I would like and rojko chastised me, showing me lead shavings in the chambers when cleaning the cylinder! Oops!

Eyeballing the chambers the entrance to the cylinder throats had a distinct sharp edge where it transitions from the case mouth to the ball seat. This caused marking of bullets and can clearly be seen in the photo examples.

Measuring marked bullets on rounds which did not go in up close to the chamber mouth, the cylinder throat opening is closer to .451 than .452 and all six chambers are tighter at the chamber mouth than farther up the ball seat where a wire edge was turned up by the chambering reamer.

I decided to lap the burr out of the chamber mouths by hand instead of firing a bunch of expensive jacketed loads, as I might have been tempted to do. This would let me control the process and hand lapping vs. reaming would be more difficult to screw up!

A .30-'06 case just turns out to be of just the right diameter, with enough length to grab, turn, align and control, with a gentle taper so that you can coat it with 600 grit lapping compound, grasp in a hand drill, then carefully polish the leade entrance of the ball seat ahead of the chamber, without touching anything else. In the other photo below you can see the polished section of a lapped chamber throat where the blue is now gone for a short distance.

After some cautious cut & try, by visual examination I could clearly see the mirror-polished angle where the lap had been working, the wire-edged burr caused by the chambering reamer was also gone. I repeated the process around all six chambers, 100 turns total, 20 turns, back off, recoat the lap, insert again, repeat, repeat, wipe, inspect.

About an hour later by eye ball all six lapped chambers looked the same. So, I took six lubed, as-cast .455 Webley Mk2 bullets, dropped them into the rear ends of the chambers and drove them with a brass drift in until the bullet noses were all flush with the front of the cylinder, tapped them back out and measured them.

The origin immediately ahead of the case months measured uniformly .452, without any mouth constriction or burrs, and the original ball seat measured one diameter ahead remained unchanged at .4515". Time to load more test rounds and go to the range.

STAY TUNED!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rojkoh posted this 11 April 2013

Nice!I used to have a 3 screw Blackhawk for the cowboy matches, Sadly a “friend” permanently borrowed it. Nicest Blackhawk I've ever known of except for a .357/44 mag conversion done by a gunsmith. Never shot anything over .44spl in it once it cracks a cylinder with a 44 mag load (and changed the cylinder).

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