Gas Check Alternatives

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Creedmoor posted this 03 August 2007

I remember reading about some device that allowed you to punch out gas checks from aluminum drink cans - I think it was called “tap-o-check".  Anyone know anything about this device?  With the price of metal/gas checks it might be worth trying.  Plus you get the beer as a bonus to the metal!

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454PB posted this 05 August 2007

I think you're referring to the free check, and Corbin also makes a set up for making your own. Aluminum cans are too thin, and by the time you buy the Corbin dies and copper sheeting, the cost is prohibitive unless you go through a truck load.

When I started casting 36 years ago, gas checks were about $4 per 1000 for .44 caliber. I ordered some parts from Lyman and received their new flyer catalog with the order. .44 and .45 checks are $50 per 1000 now. I used to buy jacketed rifle bullets for that price!

I bought a bunch in a group buy recently, and I'm trying to wein off them as much as possible to keep cost down.

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CB posted this 05 August 2007

I heard the same thing about aluminum cans, too thin. I also question the lower melting temp opposed to copper.

I too have tried to use plain base bullets as often as possible to lower the cost. I have 44 and a couple of 45's that are just too cost prohibitive to use GC's on anymore.

Perhaps those fellows that do those group buys will be kind enough to invite us folks here in on the next GC group buy. I heard they do get a pretty good price break that way.

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454PB posted this 05 August 2007

Jeff, these group buys take place all the time on the cast boolits forum, and anyone here is invited to sign up on that site and participate. http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/

Many of the names on this excellent site are also on the cast boolits site.

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CB posted this 05 August 2007

Actually I already knew that, but I figgered getting someone else to say it to get some kind of exchange between this forum and that forum would be good.

I have been a member there for a good long time now and know about the group buys, in fact I have gotten in on a few of them.

I see that there is a 30 gas check group buy that looks like it is getting ready to take off from the looks of the poll.

Anyone wanting to get in on a good deal on 30 cal gas checks should go over to Cast Boolits and get registered.

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Mnshooter posted this 06 August 2007

Just a thought on this, has anyone tried using fillers such as COW or shotgun buffer behind plain based bullets? Essentially that is a gas check also. Been going to try this but have time restraints.

Mnshooter

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

Jeff,

Do you know anything about the Gator checks? Getting in on a group buy seems like a good idea. I  use Hornady checks now, are Gators the same?

Pat 

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 09 August 2007

I tried Freechec dies when they came out, but they seemed alot of trouble. Sometimes you had to use several thicknesses of beverage can for them to fit properly on bullet shanks designed for Hornady GCs. They work after a fashion, but not as well as the store bought GCs.

I had better luck using the CF Ventures “soft gas checks” when they were available.  These are nothing more than hard wax wads. You can make your own blending equal parts by melted volume of anhydrous lanolin and paraffin.  Or use straight beeswax if you've got it! Cover a cookie sheet with waxed paper.  Pour molten lube out onto a warmed cookie sheet so that it spreads evenly about 1/16” thick.  Let it solidify at room remperature, as it may crack if cooled too rapidly in the freezer or frig.  Cut the lube sheet into strips. Press by hand over the case mouth, using it as a “cake cutter."  I use the lube wad under the bullet after first thumbing in a  dry card “Walters Wad” (from Midway) over the powder.  Seating the bullet positions both wads tightly against the bullet base.   I use a smokeless powder charge which is slightly compressed when the bullet is seated normally.

A caseful of 4198 or RL-7 works well in straight wall magnum pistol cases such as the .357 and .44 Magnum with heavier bullets such as 180-200 in the .357 and 260-300 in the .44 Mag, used in rifles or the Contender pistol. In revolvers I have used this method with standard weight bullets and 4227 if a safe charge for the given bullet would fill the case.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

As I understand this, there is a fellow somewhere down south, a Dr. of some kind that make Gator gas checks.

From what I am told they do not have the sharp edge that bites into the bullet like Hornady's do. They are similar to the old Lyman checks.

George Morrison says they do not work as well because of the way it goes onto the shank of the bullet, he says they come loose.

I have not used these checks but have held quite a bit on the Cast Boolit forum. The group buy there seems to be the best way to get them at a good price.

Perhaps someone here that has used them could give us some better info.

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454PB posted this 09 August 2007

I got in on a group buy of Gator checks about a year ago. Got several thousand .30's, .44's and .45's. They are top notch, very similar to Hornadys but better fit and finish. I highly recommend them.

pat i. wrote: Jeff,

Do you know anything about the Gator checks? Getting in on a group buy seems like a good idea. I  use Hornady checks now, are Gators the same?

Pat 

 

 

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

Do they crimp on the bullet like Hornady checks?

Pat

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

See someone who has first hand experience!

I have been considering giving them a try and getting in on the next 30 cal group buy. I just picked up 14K of Hornady checks from someone that stopped shooting 30 cal for 15 a thousand. However I can always get a couple 2 or 3K just for testing purposes.

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454PB posted this 10 August 2007

Yes, Pat. They crimp on just like the Hornady. Although I haven't yet weighed any, they seem heavier (thicker) than Hornady. I'll have to compare their weight to Hornady and Lyman, I have some of each.

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454PB posted this 10 August 2007

I took a picture of each brand of check, and also included the address label if you want to order direct.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 10 August 2007

Ed Harris wrote: I had better luck using the CF Ventures “soft gas checks” when they were available.  

I find that they are still available.  CFVentures, 509 Harvey Drive, Bloomington, IN  47403-1715.  Current price for a 5 pound box is $50.00 postpaid in the U. S. 

Duane Mellenbruch  Topeka, KS

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lmcollins posted this 11 August 2007

I have used both Hornady checks and Gator Checks. They are at least as good as Hiornadys. In the 45 caliber size they make tweo kinds of checks: The rifle checks are made from stock about .003 thicker IIRC. This makes  them more likely to stay on without opening up the shank of your mould.

The fellow's name is Larry Blackmon. He is an optical doctor. There was an article about him and his bullet swaging dies in a recent Precision Shooting magazine. I talked to him on the phone once about making up “bump dies” for cast bullets.

He seems a well informed gentleman.  His prices are slightly higher than Hornady's, but they are at least as good, and I liked working to a “niche” marketer who wants to deal with us personally.

 

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Ken O posted this 20 September 2007

i got in on a gator check group buy .30 a couple years ago. They fit fine on my 311041. Some said they were loose, but all you have to do is open the shank area on the mold a little to get the interferance fit. I can recommend them, I don't remember the price, but it was a substantial savings over the store bought.

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Molly posted this 01 November 2007

Mnshooter wrote: Just a thought on this, has anyone tried using fillers such as COW or shotgun buffer behind plain based bullets? Essentially that is a gas check also. Been going to try this but have time restraints.

Mnshooter

Hi Mnshooter,

I use COW in about all my high power loads.  I get absolute freedom for any trace of bore fouling, even when using unsized and unlubricated cast bullets.  After an afternoon shooting, the bore still gleams like a new penny.

That being said, it is also true that while I (and a few others) have had pretty decent luck with the accuracy of COW loads, some folks report reduced accuracy with them - sometimes considerably reduced accuracy.  I can't say why for sure, but I suspect the guys who get good results work up their loads with COW in the components from the git-go, while the guys who don't do so well may just drop some COW in on top of their favorite loads.  You'll just have to try it and see.  But it's sure a lot cheaper than gas checks, and seems to work even better.  And it offers the fringe benefit of eliminating the need to size and lubricate, if your throat will take a unsized bullet. 

Oh, one caveat:  I HAVE noticed that best results need a DRY bore.  You can get erratic accuracy with lubricated bullets, or even from oil in he bore.  Run a copuple of patchs down the barrel that have been wet with a squirt of lighter fluid before you shoot.  Either that, or put a couple of shots into the berm before you move on the target.

HTH

Molly

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StevenPoff posted this 11 November 2007

COW..................???????? Explain please

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 11 November 2007

StevenPoff wrote: COW..................???????? Explain please Cream of Wheat - filler.

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Molly posted this 11 November 2007

StevenPoff wrote: COW..................???????? Explain please

Sorry.  COW stands for Cream of Wheat (uncooked).

To use, assemble any sub-maximum load of your choice up to the point when you'd ordinarily be ready to seat the bullet.  Insert a bit of light fluff such as dacron to fill the case to the neck.  Fill the neck with COW.  I don't weigh the COW any more, and still get good results.  Then seat the bullet as usual.

Caveats and notes:

1.  The usual warnings apply in spades.  Drop your load by at least 10% from any handbook maximum.  This WILL increase pressures a bit, and top loads need to be worked up with COW in the package from the start:  It adds to the weight of the ejecta, and prevents the initial venting of 'young gas' that leaks by the bullet before it begins to move.  If you have a round with a tiny neck, you might need to fill the shoulder with COW too.

  1. The COW will form a hard cake behind the bullet from the pressure of the round, which will confine the gas behind the bullet.  This is so effective at preventing etching and leading that one can use bullets as cast (if the neck dia permits), without sizing, gas check, lube, paper patching, etc.  (They will often shoot BETTER without the lube.) Even loads that are maximum for jacketed bullets will leave the bore shiny and clean.  Unfortunately, accuracy is seldom up to match quality, though the reports I have seen (and my own experience) indicate that 'reasonable' accuracy is easy to obtain.  You shouldn't have much trouble hitting a wooden fence post at 100 yards or so, but don't expect any 'wallet groups' either.

HTH

Molly

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