Gas Check Alternatives

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  • Last Post 16 April 2011
Creedmoor posted this 03 August 2007

I remember reading about some device that allowed you to punch out gas checks from aluminum drink cans - I think it was called “tap-o-check".  Anyone know anything about this device?  With the price of metal/gas checks it might be worth trying.  Plus you get the beer as a bonus to the metal!

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tturner53 posted this 16 April 2011

swampdoc wrote: Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years. Ran across this while looking for info on COW in handgun loads. It was the Post of the Day and was never addressed any further! Sounds intriguing to me. Huge in my mind. Wish he would have come back with some details. Any speculations? I like to mess with high velocity loads sometimes, just for fun. My search began because I have a Lyman 358429 that casts at .358 and my chambers like a .360. My LBT will give me that, but I'd like to get some use out of the old Lyman mold. It's a PB and I think might be a good candidate to try filler in a .357. Tricks for using undersize bullets in a revolver? I don't want to Beagle it, I want to make it work as cast. I suppose the obvious answer is to try it and see, just wondering if this road's been traveled already by someone here.

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1kshooter posted this 20 July 2010

Thanks Jerry, any idea on fps? do you use a filler? I was going to use 8-10gr of Unique and fill the rest with cream of weat or rice crispies?!?! sound resonable?

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CB posted this 20 July 2010

I use Unique in a lot of reduced loads in various calibers. Try starting at 12 grains for your 45-70 and 405 grain bullet.

Jerry

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1kshooter posted this 20 July 2010

wow great read gents, I am interested in using COW in some reduced 45-70 loads with 405gr bullets cast of course and with red dot or Unique or even 700x as I have all three powders on hand could any one offer any advice? or load suggestions? I would like some sub sonic and light report if possible around 900fps-1000fps Thanks for your time Jonathan

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I have been playing around with Sil Seal as a sort of a powder stabilizer as a little wall and for a base for a plain based CB. It works well. Cheap and they have it at Lowes. I am using a leather hole punch in various sizes to cut this wads out.

 

Jerry

 

 

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I know a lot of the fellows that shoot in the PB class in competition use this florist foam to keep the powder in the case as they breech seat with no negative effect. However they are only shooting around 1000 to 1200 fps.

I use the pvc wads under a gc bullet in competition to keep the fouling more uniform. I have recovered some of those wads and they are pretty much intact with relatively little melting. It has provided a better seal to the bore keeping the flow of virgin gas past the gas check to a minimum. Absolutely no leading and no evidence of the pvc ringing the throat or sticking to the bore. I am shooting around 1900 fps or maybe a little more.

Based on thisis the reason I am working on the wad under a pb projectile, it will save a ton of money in the long run.

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codarnall posted this 23 June 2008

PVC, CMP guy of 36 years told me recently that he found styrofoam welded to the bullet bases in the butts when he quizzed me about what I figured would happen to the stuff.  He said they were just super flat;  downright cheap and easy to cut out too I would opine.

Charlie

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I have been doing some experimentation using a pvc wad under a plain based bullet. Havent collected enough data to say it is effective and practical yet. Playing with a NEF 357 mag single shot, just got another mold that is a flat nose to compare to the spiral point mold I got earlier this year. Should prove to be interesting.

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codarnall posted this 22 June 2008

I make such a device.  However, that's not why I'm here.  An interesting issue came up yesterday talking to a buyer.  He indicated that it was silly, 'shooin yourself in the foot' by seating a cast gas checked bullet below the base of the neck.  His simple solution was to order the proper mold.  Now that's obvious but does anyone have anything besides anecdotal  evidence.  Gas leaks, jetting, etc. seem to be the immediate problem if grease grooves are below the neck shoulder. 

Charlie

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CB posted this 20 April 2008

I havent tried the gators yet, as I have a 20K stock on Hornadays, but I am sure that wont last. I plan to get in on the next group buy for 30 cal.

Bruce - Thank you for your service! If there is anything we can do for you while you are in Iraq, dont hesitate to ask!

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Bruce Drake posted this 20 April 2008

I've purchasaed the Gator Checks in both 30 and 32 caliber.  I've have no complaint with their performance when compared to my usual Hornady checks.  In comparing my reloading logs last summer before I deployed here to Iraq, I found that my aggregate group sizes with my 8mm Mauser rifles and in my 30 cal Garand and Mauser Rifles did not change due to the switch in gas checks.

That to me means that I got the same performance out of them as the big company items and the group buy price from the castboolits forum meant I saved money as well.

Even though I'm in Iraq, I jumped on the opportunity to buy more when the Group Buy opened up again.  I'm going to try 22 and 30 this  time and 6.5 on the next purchase.

Bruce

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Molly posted this 25 February 2008

Yeah, I've taken a few deer with them.  The COW isn't magic.  The deer drop just about like you'd expect.  No better, no worse.  It just keeps fouling down, and lets you load hotter if you want.  Just don't load them so hot that the bullets blow up on the surface, unless you're hunting groundhogs.  What's your point?

Molly

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kjg posted this 25 February 2008

Hi guys, well here's interesting add on, the cow sounds intresting, but has any one here done any critter hunting on the medium deer sized animals to moose, with it? keving seeing the price of loaded ammo sky rocket in the past year, my casting habbit has turned to full production, 30 cal mostly.

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30-30 Wesson posted this 25 February 2008

Good one Molly. About as subtle as a brick.

Your answer has got me thinking about the copper fouling buildup in the first 3” of some barrels I've come across. It's probably vapourised copper deposit and not friction deposited, as I had thought. One customer I had demanded I fit a new barrel in his .223 Ruger as he reckoned the old one was shot out. You couldn't see and rifling for the first 4", it sure looked shot out but the rest of the rifling looked pristine.

Later I got to thinking and gave it a good clean out. I now have it fitted to a Remington 788 action and it is a fine shooter. Best group, .235” @ 100m with Winchester factory 45g Varmint specials. It seems that some of our professional 'Roo shooters don't know a thing about cleaning a rifle barrel.

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CB posted this 25 February 2008

Personally, I'm cheeper than a cage full of canaries! I was once quoted about 7 cents each for some steel washers by a hardware store.  I went home, drilled a hole in the center of a few pennies and mailed one each to the hardware store and the washer manufacturer, along with a note asking if that was a suitable level of subtlety! (VBG)

Molly - That is one of the funniest things I have heard so far this week!

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Molly posted this 25 February 2008

30-30 Wesson wrote: Jeff,  What does the  lower melting point of Aluminium (compared to Copper ) have to do with using them as Gas checks? Is the Aluminium check going to melt in the miniscule time that it is in the barrel? I don't understand. Has anyone thought of trying Zinc plated steel sheeting for checks? Is 5 cents per check really going to break everyones bank?

Hi 30-30 Wesson,

I'm not Jeff, but maybe I can answer some of your questions.  It isn't melting per se that might be a problem, it's etching.  Even paper won't burn in the short exposure time.  But the hot gas WILL etch lead. The MP of aluminum is SO low that you can melt it in a wood fire that is only a few hundred degrees hotter than bullet melting /casting temperatures.  Compared to the temperature of propellant flames (hotter than the MP of steel), they are essentially the same MP.  A very similar etching and 'leading' (?aluminuming?) pattern COULD result, if the molten aluminum has a surface temperature hot enough to allow it to wet the steel.  It doesn't have that low a surface tension when first melted, but that changes as it gets hotter and hotter.  And if it DOES wet the steel, you're gonna have some mighty tough leading. 

Now, that said, I really don't think it will wet the steel.  There have been gas checks made from aluminum, and they reportedly worked pretty well, though I don't know how hot the loads were.

I think the real problem is that casters are by nature pretty independent and VERY economy minded.  Otherwise, they'd shoot jacketed bullets, or failing that, factory ammo, if cost wasn't a factor.  And when you tell someone with an economy mindset that you're gonna charge him five cents for what is obviously about a quarter of a penny's worth of copper - if that - you'll get his back up in a hurry.  It simply doesn't cost that much to stamp out a simple cup shape from soft copper on automated machinery, and ship it to consumers.  And yeah, it gets my goat too. 

Personally, I'm cheeper than a cage full of canaries! I was once quoted about 7 cents each for some steel washers by a hardware store.  I went home, drilled a hole in the center of a few pennies and mailed one each to the hardware store and the washer manufacturer, along with a note asking if that was a suitable level of subtlety! (VBG)

Molly

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30-30 Wesson posted this 24 February 2008

Jeff,  What does the  lower melting point of Aluminium (compared to Copper ) have to do with using them as Gas checks? Is the Aluminium check going to melt in the miniscule time that it is in the barrel? I don't understand. Has anyone thought of trying Zinc plated steel sheeting for checks? Is 5 cents per check really going to break everyones bank?

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Molly posted this 24 February 2008

swampdoc wrote: Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years.

Hey SwampDoc,

We need some details here.  Please take us through your loading process in some detail.  What bullet design or number?  What alloy?  What is the hardness?  How is the bullet cast (IE, chilled, quenched, aged, etc?)

Does the lube wad go under the bullet, or under the COW?  How thick is it?  How wide is it?  Do you precut the wads, or press them out of a cake as you load? How much COW? 

What range are you shooting at?  What kind of rifle do you have?  What barrel length?  Who made the barrel?  What bore diameter? 

What kind of accuracy do you get with jacketed bullets (for comparison)?  Do you chronograph your velocities?

Thanks for any details you can provide.

Molly

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JimmyDee posted this 24 February 2008

swampdoc, re: your reply reporting 2900fps from a 300 Win Mag

I've got to ask: bullet weight? alloy? lube? charge?  accuracy?

It's mean to tease us like that! 

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swampdoc posted this 21 February 2008

Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years.

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