Gas Check Alternatives

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Creedmoor posted this 03 August 2007

I remember reading about some device that allowed you to punch out gas checks from aluminum drink cans - I think it was called “tap-o-check".  Anyone know anything about this device?  With the price of metal/gas checks it might be worth trying.  Plus you get the beer as a bonus to the metal!

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454PB posted this 05 August 2007

I think you're referring to the free check, and Corbin also makes a set up for making your own. Aluminum cans are too thin, and by the time you buy the Corbin dies and copper sheeting, the cost is prohibitive unless you go through a truck load.

When I started casting 36 years ago, gas checks were about $4 per 1000 for .44 caliber. I ordered some parts from Lyman and received their new flyer catalog with the order. .44 and .45 checks are $50 per 1000 now. I used to buy jacketed rifle bullets for that price!

I bought a bunch in a group buy recently, and I'm trying to wein off them as much as possible to keep cost down.

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CB posted this 05 August 2007

I heard the same thing about aluminum cans, too thin. I also question the lower melting temp opposed to copper.

I too have tried to use plain base bullets as often as possible to lower the cost. I have 44 and a couple of 45's that are just too cost prohibitive to use GC's on anymore.

Perhaps those fellows that do those group buys will be kind enough to invite us folks here in on the next GC group buy. I heard they do get a pretty good price break that way.

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454PB posted this 05 August 2007

Jeff, these group buys take place all the time on the cast boolits forum, and anyone here is invited to sign up on that site and participate. http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/

Many of the names on this excellent site are also on the cast boolits site.

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CB posted this 05 August 2007

Actually I already knew that, but I figgered getting someone else to say it to get some kind of exchange between this forum and that forum would be good.

I have been a member there for a good long time now and know about the group buys, in fact I have gotten in on a few of them.

I see that there is a 30 gas check group buy that looks like it is getting ready to take off from the looks of the poll.

Anyone wanting to get in on a good deal on 30 cal gas checks should go over to Cast Boolits and get registered.

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Mnshooter posted this 06 August 2007

Just a thought on this, has anyone tried using fillers such as COW or shotgun buffer behind plain based bullets? Essentially that is a gas check also. Been going to try this but have time restraints.

Mnshooter

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

Jeff,

Do you know anything about the Gator checks? Getting in on a group buy seems like a good idea. I  use Hornady checks now, are Gators the same?

Pat 

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 09 August 2007

I tried Freechec dies when they came out, but they seemed alot of trouble. Sometimes you had to use several thicknesses of beverage can for them to fit properly on bullet shanks designed for Hornady GCs. They work after a fashion, but not as well as the store bought GCs.

I had better luck using the CF Ventures “soft gas checks” when they were available.  These are nothing more than hard wax wads. You can make your own blending equal parts by melted volume of anhydrous lanolin and paraffin.  Or use straight beeswax if you've got it! Cover a cookie sheet with waxed paper.  Pour molten lube out onto a warmed cookie sheet so that it spreads evenly about 1/16” thick.  Let it solidify at room remperature, as it may crack if cooled too rapidly in the freezer or frig.  Cut the lube sheet into strips. Press by hand over the case mouth, using it as a “cake cutter."  I use the lube wad under the bullet after first thumbing in a  dry card “Walters Wad” (from Midway) over the powder.  Seating the bullet positions both wads tightly against the bullet base.   I use a smokeless powder charge which is slightly compressed when the bullet is seated normally.

A caseful of 4198 or RL-7 works well in straight wall magnum pistol cases such as the .357 and .44 Magnum with heavier bullets such as 180-200 in the .357 and 260-300 in the .44 Mag, used in rifles or the Contender pistol. In revolvers I have used this method with standard weight bullets and 4227 if a safe charge for the given bullet would fill the case.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

As I understand this, there is a fellow somewhere down south, a Dr. of some kind that make Gator gas checks.

From what I am told they do not have the sharp edge that bites into the bullet like Hornady's do. They are similar to the old Lyman checks.

George Morrison says they do not work as well because of the way it goes onto the shank of the bullet, he says they come loose.

I have not used these checks but have held quite a bit on the Cast Boolit forum. The group buy there seems to be the best way to get them at a good price.

Perhaps someone here that has used them could give us some better info.

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454PB posted this 09 August 2007

I got in on a group buy of Gator checks about a year ago. Got several thousand .30's, .44's and .45's. They are top notch, very similar to Hornadys but better fit and finish. I highly recommend them.

pat i. wrote: Jeff,

Do you know anything about the Gator checks? Getting in on a group buy seems like a good idea. I  use Hornady checks now, are Gators the same?

Pat 

 

 

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

Do they crimp on the bullet like Hornady checks?

Pat

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CB posted this 09 August 2007

See someone who has first hand experience!

I have been considering giving them a try and getting in on the next 30 cal group buy. I just picked up 14K of Hornady checks from someone that stopped shooting 30 cal for 15 a thousand. However I can always get a couple 2 or 3K just for testing purposes.

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454PB posted this 10 August 2007

Yes, Pat. They crimp on just like the Hornady. Although I haven't yet weighed any, they seem heavier (thicker) than Hornady. I'll have to compare their weight to Hornady and Lyman, I have some of each.

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454PB posted this 10 August 2007

I took a picture of each brand of check, and also included the address label if you want to order direct.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 10 August 2007

Ed Harris wrote: I had better luck using the CF Ventures “soft gas checks” when they were available.  

I find that they are still available.  CFVentures, 509 Harvey Drive, Bloomington, IN  47403-1715.  Current price for a 5 pound box is $50.00 postpaid in the U. S. 

Duane Mellenbruch  Topeka, KS

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lmcollins posted this 11 August 2007

I have used both Hornady checks and Gator Checks. They are at least as good as Hiornadys. In the 45 caliber size they make tweo kinds of checks: The rifle checks are made from stock about .003 thicker IIRC. This makes  them more likely to stay on without opening up the shank of your mould.

The fellow's name is Larry Blackmon. He is an optical doctor. There was an article about him and his bullet swaging dies in a recent Precision Shooting magazine. I talked to him on the phone once about making up “bump dies” for cast bullets.

He seems a well informed gentleman.  His prices are slightly higher than Hornady's, but they are at least as good, and I liked working to a “niche” marketer who wants to deal with us personally.

 

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Ken O posted this 20 September 2007

i got in on a gator check group buy .30 a couple years ago. They fit fine on my 311041. Some said they were loose, but all you have to do is open the shank area on the mold a little to get the interferance fit. I can recommend them, I don't remember the price, but it was a substantial savings over the store bought.

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Molly posted this 01 November 2007

Mnshooter wrote: Just a thought on this, has anyone tried using fillers such as COW or shotgun buffer behind plain based bullets? Essentially that is a gas check also. Been going to try this but have time restraints.

Mnshooter

Hi Mnshooter,

I use COW in about all my high power loads.  I get absolute freedom for any trace of bore fouling, even when using unsized and unlubricated cast bullets.  After an afternoon shooting, the bore still gleams like a new penny.

That being said, it is also true that while I (and a few others) have had pretty decent luck with the accuracy of COW loads, some folks report reduced accuracy with them - sometimes considerably reduced accuracy.  I can't say why for sure, but I suspect the guys who get good results work up their loads with COW in the components from the git-go, while the guys who don't do so well may just drop some COW in on top of their favorite loads.  You'll just have to try it and see.  But it's sure a lot cheaper than gas checks, and seems to work even better.  And it offers the fringe benefit of eliminating the need to size and lubricate, if your throat will take a unsized bullet. 

Oh, one caveat:  I HAVE noticed that best results need a DRY bore.  You can get erratic accuracy with lubricated bullets, or even from oil in he bore.  Run a copuple of patchs down the barrel that have been wet with a squirt of lighter fluid before you shoot.  Either that, or put a couple of shots into the berm before you move on the target.

HTH

Molly

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StevenPoff posted this 11 November 2007

COW..................???????? Explain please

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 11 November 2007

StevenPoff wrote: COW..................???????? Explain please Cream of Wheat - filler.

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Molly posted this 11 November 2007

StevenPoff wrote: COW..................???????? Explain please

Sorry.  COW stands for Cream of Wheat (uncooked).

To use, assemble any sub-maximum load of your choice up to the point when you'd ordinarily be ready to seat the bullet.  Insert a bit of light fluff such as dacron to fill the case to the neck.  Fill the neck with COW.  I don't weigh the COW any more, and still get good results.  Then seat the bullet as usual.

Caveats and notes:

1.  The usual warnings apply in spades.  Drop your load by at least 10% from any handbook maximum.  This WILL increase pressures a bit, and top loads need to be worked up with COW in the package from the start:  It adds to the weight of the ejecta, and prevents the initial venting of 'young gas' that leaks by the bullet before it begins to move.  If you have a round with a tiny neck, you might need to fill the shoulder with COW too.

  1. The COW will form a hard cake behind the bullet from the pressure of the round, which will confine the gas behind the bullet.  This is so effective at preventing etching and leading that one can use bullets as cast (if the neck dia permits), without sizing, gas check, lube, paper patching, etc.  (They will often shoot BETTER without the lube.) Even loads that are maximum for jacketed bullets will leave the bore shiny and clean.  Unfortunately, accuracy is seldom up to match quality, though the reports I have seen (and my own experience) indicate that 'reasonable' accuracy is easy to obtain.  You shouldn't have much trouble hitting a wooden fence post at 100 yards or so, but don't expect any 'wallet groups' either.

HTH

Molly

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Lon posted this 11 November 2007

Molly, can you give any load data? I'd like to try Cream of Wheat in an '06. I'm hesitant because I “ringed” a chamber in that caliber with a filler.

OK, sorry  you answered while I was typing.

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CB posted this 12 November 2007

COW will not ring a chamber like some of the poly fillers.. In fact it will polish your bore up bright and shiny. Smells like you are cooking breakfast when you shoot it..

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American posted this 10 January 2008

Very glad to have found this group!  And this particular thread, as well. 

As you can see, this is my first post.  I've only been reloading for about 6 months but really like it.  I've not cast bullets yet but I'm hot on it, may order some stuff today, and have done enough research to see that copper gas checks seem to about double the cost of cast bullets (assuming a worst-case scenario of buying scrap wheel weights for 70 cents a pound)”¦

I like the poly filler/COW idea, but have a couple of questions. 

First, when using a fast powder like surplus WC820 (AA#9 equivilent), its maybe more likely to get detonation from a partially-filled case under certain conditions.  It seems some inert filler would help prevent that but, as mentioned, filler also may raise pressure by reducing free case volume and so COW loads should be worked up from scratch.  Would this pressure-raising effect vary in relation to powder burn rate, making the practice less/more safe or effective for faster/slower powders?

Also, could there be problems associated with loading up some COW loads and then, say, driving them across country to shoot elsewhere - could extended agitation caused by this vehicular transport mix up the COW, filler and powder, and if so, is that a problem?

And what is “ringing"?

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CB posted this 11 January 2008

American,

Guess the previous posters aren't replying back, so.

First, detonation is a bad thing. I think the fast pistol powders are the most prone to this in reduced rifle loads. I know 2 competitors who have blown up their rifles using 4227 as such. I use a light tuff of Dacron or cotton tamped down over the powder or use a sill-plate wad cut out from the strips used in construction. I use the lightest amount of material possible and it most always helps accuracy in my loads. If you want to shoot all day at 100yds and under, the fast shotgun powders will work with no need for gas checks, wads, or filler. Ed Harris talks about it in this forum using Red Dot.

'Ringing' from what I understand is like ringing a barrel where there is a light obstruction in the bore that is shot out when a round is fired and it leaves a swelled ring in the bore. The  chamber can do the same thing when using fillers or wads usually down in a bottleneck cartridge. The wad or fillers acts like an obstruction when it is fired and pressure puts a swelled ring in the chamber area.

I've tried COW loads and they turned me off. Not much luck. Once you dump the stuff all in and run a bullet down on it, you're at the mercy of what it's going to do. Pack up and ring or shoot out. I just don't like it. It'd probably be great in BPC straight wall cases and handgun cartridges.  For a gas check alternative, I think the PVC wad would be the thing to try. You're not at the mercy of it going wrong and it is successful in a lot of the CBA br competitors. That is what I'd try anyway..............Dan

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Molly posted this 12 January 2008

Well, my own input is that COW seems to give diferent results in different guns.  Or perhaps the shooters have different expectations.  I don't know.  But let me tell you about a test I conducted this afternoon:

I wanted to evaluate 311299 in my 30-06 because of it's larger nose diameter.  It's a 205 grain bullet designed for the .303 British, and is very similar to 311291 (170g). 

Hindsight, they say, is always 20-20 vision.  Because of that similarity, I selected a load of MR3100 that is a favorite with 311291 without pausing to reflect that 311299 is significantly heavier.  I won't specify the exact load, but the case was pretty well full.  As usual, the bullets were sized 0.312", gas checked and lubed with the NRA's Alox Beeswax blend.  No fillers of any sort were used.  Accuracy at 50 yards was erratic, and primers were pretty flat.  Two or three shots might cluster in an inch or less, but there was always a flier or two that might open the groups to 3 or 4 inches.  Obviously, I need to drop my charge and work back up, which I intend to do.

But the interesting part of the shooting was that I didn't limit the experiment to just the single load.  While I kept the powder charge constant, I also loaded some variations:  Some with high and low levels of Dacron, some with low levels of Dacron with COW filling the case, some with COW alone, some with COW and no GC, some with COW and no dacron, GC or lube.

Most of these demonstrated the same erratic accuracy of the control load:  Poor but promising.  The single exception was the load with COW but no Dacron, GC or lube.  (The bullet was sized, but only because a test round with an unsized bullet wouldn't chamber.)  This load shot a regular (as opposed to irregular) group of about 1.25 inches at 50 yards, with no fliers.  This won't win any CBA matches, but it will sure serve most of my needs in the field, and I intend to polish it a bit and see where it goes.  Note that this difference was obtained AFTER my '06 had pounded on my (sore) shoulder for about 60 rounds.  I had begun to wonder if some of those fliers might be due to a flinch.  Apparently that was not the case.

The point is, COW loads CAN perform, subject to your needs and expectations.  I've used COW in everything from squirrel popping loads to heavy loads like some of the above.  True, I've only obtained match accuracy in two or three instances, but I've never obtained very poor accuracy that would preclude its use in field loads.  Interestingly enough (I can't explain why), every test that pitted sized, GC'ed and lubed bullets in COW loads against dry, bare bottomed and unsized cast bullets has invariaby favored the latter, whether in light loads or heavy loads.  I suspect the reluctance of some shooters to fire unlubed and un-gc'ed bullets in their target rifles might have something to do with at least some of the poor performance reports.

And one area where COW loads consistently out-perform 'normal' loads is in the area of bore fouling.  'Normal' cast bullets are velocity limited before leading begins to be a problem.  In rough, irregular bores, this can happen at astonishingly low velocities.  In contrast, I have never received or read a report of bore fouling from a COW load.  No matter how high the velocity, or how high the pressure, COW loads leave the bore sparkling clean.

Hope you find this interesting.

Molly

 

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CB posted this 13 January 2008

That is pretty interesting Molly.

When I first starting shooting CB comp I was working on some loads for my M12 308. COW was used in some of the loads I tried.

I asked a few people that did smith work about this and in each instance I got the same or relatively same answer.

"COW is a grain, ever see the inside of a grain truck? See how polished the metal is?"

I assume they meant that the grain was the polishing agent, much like corn cob or walnut shells are when we polish brass, therefore it would effectively polish the inside of the bore.

I was also cautioned about the additional wear on the barrel..

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Molly posted this 13 January 2008

Jeff Bowles wrote: That is pretty interesting Molly.

When I first starting shooting CB comp I was working on some loads for my M12 308. COW was used in some of the loads I tried.How did they work?  Were they light, medium or heavy loads?  How much COW did you use?I asked a few people that did smith work about this and in each instance I got the same or relatively same answer.

"COW is a grain, ever see the inside of a grain truck? See how polished the metal is?"

I assume they meant that the grain was the polishing agent, much like corn cob or walnut shells are when we polish brass, therefore it would effectively polish the inside of the bore.  I was also cautioned about the additional wear on the barrel.Umm.  I'll have to think about that, but my first reaction is pretty negative.  COW may come from a plant (wheat grain), but that grain is pretty well crushed into a soft, mostly powdery material.  Granted, soft material CAN wear hard material:  Even loam will put a polish on a steel plow share.  And dripping water may wear away stone, but it takes a darn long time to do it!  Similarly, a leather strap may wear away a straight razor, and COW MAY wear away steel, but I suspect it will not happen fast enough to be significant.  At least it hasn't happened quickly in my rifles, and I've put quite a bit of COW down them.  Hmmm.  That brings the thought that our forebearers used plant material (cloth) and even thin leather as patching for MLBP rifles, and I never heard anyone complain that they wore their barrels excessively.Jeff, a LOT of things that seem logical and reasonable simply are not so.  Leading used to be due to lead scrapping off the bullet by rough bores, or to the wrong lube, or to a lube that wore out halfway down the barrel, or to a bullet that was too fast for the rifling, or to 'stripping the rifling' or to you-name-it.  “Logical and reasonable' is a good way to guess at what to test next, but it's a terrible way to develop explanations.  It's responsible for all the old wives tales that have held cast bullet technology in the dark ages for generations:  Someone thinks of a reasonable and logical explanation that 'must' be true, but doesn't take the obvious next step of trying to prove or disprove it by actual testing.  I'm not saying that COW won't wear steel, but I am saying that I've never heard any actual test data that supports the notion, and I've seen a lot more that argues against it.  Not only does actual testing in rifles indicate that any effect is minimal at most, but similar situations also argue against it:  For example, ground walnut hulls are frequently used in 'sandblasting' machines where the desire is to remove surface rust without damaging the steel.  I've used it to remove every trace of rust off of a gun that's being refinished.  And though the crushed walnut hulls are much harder than COW, I've not noticed any tendency to polish the metal underneath. Again, I don't know for sure that COW will or will not polish steel, but  if someone claims it will, I'd like to hear some actual testing to prove it, or at least a citation of something comparable that supports the claim.  The grain truck citation is interesting, but in the light of a lot of contradictory citations, and the lack of any real testing, I'd suggest you view it with a jaundiced eye, looking over a big block of cattle salt.  Meanwhile, my own actual test data suggests that I'm not likely to live long enough for any abrasive wear from COW to become noticable, so I'm going to continue to use it - unless I find something better, and I might!Regards, Molly

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CB posted this 13 January 2008

I think the load was 28.5 gr of varget, with cow filling the case to the base of the neck. It shot okay, but not much better than the same load without COW...

Tom Gray is who told me the analogy of the grain truck.. I don't think it would wear the barrel excessively, but Tom did caution me on extended use. I grew up on a farm, so I have seen the polished grain trucks, but most of those were just plain steel, and who knows how long they had been in service and how many loads of grain the hauled.

I don't use it as it adds another step in my process loading at the range and I didnt see an improvement in accuracy to justify the additional step.

I do use it in my BPCR gun...

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Molly posted this 13 January 2008

Jeff Bowles wrote: I think the load was 28.5 gr of varget, with cow filling the case to the base of the neck. It shot okay, but not much better than the same load without COW...

I don't use it as it adds another step in my process loading at the range and I didnt see an improvement in accuracy to justify the additional step.

Ah!  We're not talking the same language!  You see, the real advantage of COW is not necessarily improved accuracy as such.  It's advantage is improved accuracy in high power loads!

Light loads with and without GC are well developed, as are moderate (midrange) loads with GC'ed cast bullets.  Their technology has been developed and refined over generations of shooters, as you're well aware.  But even the best of them will not deliver reasonable accuracy with true high-power loads.  We get bore leading and keyholes on the on the target from the few bullets that manage to hit it.  In my CB infancy, I actually loaded a soft lead spitzer over a nearly max jacketed load.  It was a most educational experience.  I don't actually recall the exact grouping, but the dispersion was somewhere around 30 degrees.  Not minutes of angle.  DEGREES!

Today, I can load similar ammo (with harder bullets) and get some pretty useful accuracy.  It won't win matches, but I was popping rocks off the backstop offhand to finish off the loads on saturday.  This was because my shoulder was sore, but the COW loads were accurate enough that I could do it!  I can also load 6.5x55, 7.65x54 and other calibers with full or nearly full loads under cast bullets and get decent results.  But I get the best results with plain bullets, without lube or gas checks.  sizing doesn't seem to make much difference, but if an unsized bullet won't chamber, I fall back on sizing with no concerns. 

COW loads weren't the result of any great development project, and I have very minimal bragging rights.  I just happened to notice that some highly incompetent case forming loads that used the COW didn't lead at all.  I just followed up the observations, that's all.  But in only a few years, the technology has already outstripped generations of conventional cast bullets (except paper patched) at really high velocity.  Who knows what a few decades of development will do?

Regards,

Molly

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swampdoc posted this 21 February 2008

Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years.

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JimmyDee posted this 24 February 2008

swampdoc, re: your reply reporting 2900fps from a 300 Win Mag

I've got to ask: bullet weight? alloy? lube? charge?  accuracy?

It's mean to tease us like that! 

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Molly posted this 24 February 2008

swampdoc wrote: Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years.

Hey SwampDoc,

We need some details here.  Please take us through your loading process in some detail.  What bullet design or number?  What alloy?  What is the hardness?  How is the bullet cast (IE, chilled, quenched, aged, etc?)

Does the lube wad go under the bullet, or under the COW?  How thick is it?  How wide is it?  Do you precut the wads, or press them out of a cake as you load? How much COW? 

What range are you shooting at?  What kind of rifle do you have?  What barrel length?  Who made the barrel?  What bore diameter? 

What kind of accuracy do you get with jacketed bullets (for comparison)?  Do you chronograph your velocities?

Thanks for any details you can provide.

Molly

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30-30 Wesson posted this 24 February 2008

Jeff,  What does the  lower melting point of Aluminium (compared to Copper ) have to do with using them as Gas checks? Is the Aluminium check going to melt in the miniscule time that it is in the barrel? I don't understand. Has anyone thought of trying Zinc plated steel sheeting for checks? Is 5 cents per check really going to break everyones bank?

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Molly posted this 25 February 2008

30-30 Wesson wrote: Jeff,  What does the  lower melting point of Aluminium (compared to Copper ) have to do with using them as Gas checks? Is the Aluminium check going to melt in the miniscule time that it is in the barrel? I don't understand. Has anyone thought of trying Zinc plated steel sheeting for checks? Is 5 cents per check really going to break everyones bank?

Hi 30-30 Wesson,

I'm not Jeff, but maybe I can answer some of your questions.  It isn't melting per se that might be a problem, it's etching.  Even paper won't burn in the short exposure time.  But the hot gas WILL etch lead. The MP of aluminum is SO low that you can melt it in a wood fire that is only a few hundred degrees hotter than bullet melting /casting temperatures.  Compared to the temperature of propellant flames (hotter than the MP of steel), they are essentially the same MP.  A very similar etching and 'leading' (?aluminuming?) pattern COULD result, if the molten aluminum has a surface temperature hot enough to allow it to wet the steel.  It doesn't have that low a surface tension when first melted, but that changes as it gets hotter and hotter.  And if it DOES wet the steel, you're gonna have some mighty tough leading. 

Now, that said, I really don't think it will wet the steel.  There have been gas checks made from aluminum, and they reportedly worked pretty well, though I don't know how hot the loads were.

I think the real problem is that casters are by nature pretty independent and VERY economy minded.  Otherwise, they'd shoot jacketed bullets, or failing that, factory ammo, if cost wasn't a factor.  And when you tell someone with an economy mindset that you're gonna charge him five cents for what is obviously about a quarter of a penny's worth of copper - if that - you'll get his back up in a hurry.  It simply doesn't cost that much to stamp out a simple cup shape from soft copper on automated machinery, and ship it to consumers.  And yeah, it gets my goat too. 

Personally, I'm cheeper than a cage full of canaries! I was once quoted about 7 cents each for some steel washers by a hardware store.  I went home, drilled a hole in the center of a few pennies and mailed one each to the hardware store and the washer manufacturer, along with a note asking if that was a suitable level of subtlety! (VBG)

Molly

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CB posted this 25 February 2008

Personally, I'm cheeper than a cage full of canaries! I was once quoted about 7 cents each for some steel washers by a hardware store.  I went home, drilled a hole in the center of a few pennies and mailed one each to the hardware store and the washer manufacturer, along with a note asking if that was a suitable level of subtlety! (VBG)

Molly - That is one of the funniest things I have heard so far this week!

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30-30 Wesson posted this 25 February 2008

Good one Molly. About as subtle as a brick.

Your answer has got me thinking about the copper fouling buildup in the first 3” of some barrels I've come across. It's probably vapourised copper deposit and not friction deposited, as I had thought. One customer I had demanded I fit a new barrel in his .223 Ruger as he reckoned the old one was shot out. You couldn't see and rifling for the first 4", it sure looked shot out but the rest of the rifling looked pristine.

Later I got to thinking and gave it a good clean out. I now have it fitted to a Remington 788 action and it is a fine shooter. Best group, .235” @ 100m with Winchester factory 45g Varmint specials. It seems that some of our professional 'Roo shooters don't know a thing about cleaning a rifle barrel.

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kjg posted this 25 February 2008

Hi guys, well here's interesting add on, the cow sounds intresting, but has any one here done any critter hunting on the medium deer sized animals to moose, with it? keving seeing the price of loaded ammo sky rocket in the past year, my casting habbit has turned to full production, 30 cal mostly.

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Molly posted this 25 February 2008

Yeah, I've taken a few deer with them.  The COW isn't magic.  The deer drop just about like you'd expect.  No better, no worse.  It just keeps fouling down, and lets you load hotter if you want.  Just don't load them so hot that the bullets blow up on the surface, unless you're hunting groundhogs.  What's your point?

Molly

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Bruce Drake posted this 20 April 2008

I've purchasaed the Gator Checks in both 30 and 32 caliber.  I've have no complaint with their performance when compared to my usual Hornady checks.  In comparing my reloading logs last summer before I deployed here to Iraq, I found that my aggregate group sizes with my 8mm Mauser rifles and in my 30 cal Garand and Mauser Rifles did not change due to the switch in gas checks.

That to me means that I got the same performance out of them as the big company items and the group buy price from the castboolits forum meant I saved money as well.

Even though I'm in Iraq, I jumped on the opportunity to buy more when the Group Buy opened up again.  I'm going to try 22 and 30 this  time and 6.5 on the next purchase.

Bruce

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CB posted this 20 April 2008

I havent tried the gators yet, as I have a 20K stock on Hornadays, but I am sure that wont last. I plan to get in on the next group buy for 30 cal.

Bruce - Thank you for your service! If there is anything we can do for you while you are in Iraq, dont hesitate to ask!

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codarnall posted this 22 June 2008

I make such a device.  However, that's not why I'm here.  An interesting issue came up yesterday talking to a buyer.  He indicated that it was silly, 'shooin yourself in the foot' by seating a cast gas checked bullet below the base of the neck.  His simple solution was to order the proper mold.  Now that's obvious but does anyone have anything besides anecdotal  evidence.  Gas leaks, jetting, etc. seem to be the immediate problem if grease grooves are below the neck shoulder. 

Charlie

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I have been doing some experimentation using a pvc wad under a plain based bullet. Havent collected enough data to say it is effective and practical yet. Playing with a NEF 357 mag single shot, just got another mold that is a flat nose to compare to the spiral point mold I got earlier this year. Should prove to be interesting.

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codarnall posted this 23 June 2008

PVC, CMP guy of 36 years told me recently that he found styrofoam welded to the bullet bases in the butts when he quizzed me about what I figured would happen to the stuff.  He said they were just super flat;  downright cheap and easy to cut out too I would opine.

Charlie

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I know a lot of the fellows that shoot in the PB class in competition use this florist foam to keep the powder in the case as they breech seat with no negative effect. However they are only shooting around 1000 to 1200 fps.

I use the pvc wads under a gc bullet in competition to keep the fouling more uniform. I have recovered some of those wads and they are pretty much intact with relatively little melting. It has provided a better seal to the bore keeping the flow of virgin gas past the gas check to a minimum. Absolutely no leading and no evidence of the pvc ringing the throat or sticking to the bore. I am shooting around 1900 fps or maybe a little more.

Based on thisis the reason I am working on the wad under a pb projectile, it will save a ton of money in the long run.

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CB posted this 23 June 2008

I have been playing around with Sil Seal as a sort of a powder stabilizer as a little wall and for a base for a plain based CB. It works well. Cheap and they have it at Lowes. I am using a leather hole punch in various sizes to cut this wads out.

 

Jerry

 

 

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1kshooter posted this 20 July 2010

wow great read gents, I am interested in using COW in some reduced 45-70 loads with 405gr bullets cast of course and with red dot or Unique or even 700x as I have all three powders on hand could any one offer any advice? or load suggestions? I would like some sub sonic and light report if possible around 900fps-1000fps Thanks for your time Jonathan

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CB posted this 20 July 2010

I use Unique in a lot of reduced loads in various calibers. Try starting at 12 grains for your 45-70 and 405 grain bullet.

Jerry

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1kshooter posted this 20 July 2010

Thanks Jerry, any idea on fps? do you use a filler? I was going to use 8-10gr of Unique and fill the rest with cream of weat or rice crispies?!?! sound resonable?

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tturner53 posted this 16 April 2011

swampdoc wrote: Cream of wheat between powder and boolit are great for eliminating leading. If you add a wad with carnauba/beeswax/parafin mixture ( equal amounts) you'll be able to shoot high velocity indefinately. My 300 Win mag does 2900 fps with no leading and shoots under one inch! This combo is great for the 22 centerfires. I haven't used gaschecks in 16 years. Ran across this while looking for info on COW in handgun loads. It was the Post of the Day and was never addressed any further! Sounds intriguing to me. Huge in my mind. Wish he would have come back with some details. Any speculations? I like to mess with high velocity loads sometimes, just for fun. My search began because I have a Lyman 358429 that casts at .358 and my chambers like a .360. My LBT will give me that, but I'd like to get some use out of the old Lyman mold. It's a PB and I think might be a good candidate to try filler in a .357. Tricks for using undersize bullets in a revolver? I don't want to Beagle it, I want to make it work as cast. I suppose the obvious answer is to try it and see, just wondering if this road's been traveled already by someone here.

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