What type of press?

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

This isn't about a comparison of brands or types. I'm curious as to how many reloaders started out as beginners with a progressive press.

I am helping a friend with getting back into shooting now for a couple months. Today I find he is looking at hand loading as I have been talking about my operation. I have been reloading for 20+ years and he's talking of starting off with a progressive press operation. I have a few concerns of a beginner starting on a progressive. Especially as anxious as he seems to be.

I was wondering how many have started as beginners with a progressive setup. 

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RicinYakima posted this 17 February 2023

The only person I know who started with a Dillion press made ammo that was unusable, didn't fit his pistol and many had no powder or primer.  He gave it all away within a month and then bought Winchester white box. FWIW

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Shopdog posted this 17 February 2023

There's always a reason to own a single stage press.... even if you had a line of progressive presses.

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

I started on a single stage press myself, I got to the point I could easily run 150 pistol cartridges in an hour. I'm trying to get him to focus on getting proficient with his new pistol first. He asked me what he should get first and of course I told him a manual. I told him to read and re-read the instructional section first. Thanks for the info on your friend though, I can tell him about that and try to slow his roll. He's interested in reloading mainly from me talking about my reloading, but I've been doing it for 20+ years.

I fully agree Shopdog, I started with a single and I still have and use it. Mainly I want to slow him a bit. He has just gotten back to shooting after a couple years away from it. He seems to be in a hurry and we all know that is a bad idea when reloading.

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Wm Cook posted this 17 February 2023

My recommendation would be to keep it simple and let the learning evolve at a natural pace.  Overcomplicating the process at the start of the learning curve could lead to a lot of frustration; missing primers, no powder, spilled powder etc.

It isn’t as simple as adjusting all the variables one time and then thinking all you have to do is pull a handle and a loaded round falls out.  Stuff happens that you have to recognize and adjust for in real time.

Heck just the initial load development needs a single stage press, a stand alone powder measure and a scale.

And it’s expensive.  Almost like buying a sports car for someone that just got their drivers learning permit.

Sorry for being so negative.  I’ve been sidetracked on a home defense 9mm sbr project and I miss my long guns. Semi auto hand gun cartridges give me a headache.  

On a positive note I get to buy more molds 🙂. Take care, Bill C.

 

 

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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David Reiss posted this 17 February 2023

Single stage absolutely. That is the only way he will learn the process and whys. It is too easy to go fast on a progressive and not catch mistakes, if you don't know there are mistakes. It took me 14-15 years before I got my progressive. I still use my single stages more than the progressive. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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MarkinEllensburg posted this 17 February 2023

I learned on a single stage, old (really old) Lyman T press with primer feed. When I bought my first press it was an old CH "c" single stage. It was what I found at a local (Spokane, WA) gun show. It just so happened that right about the time I was gearing up with my own equipment I went to visit my dad and there was a gun show. I decided on a Lee hand primer. At the time I was only loading for .270 Win. This was several years after moving out. I learned with my dad's tooling. After a bit of time I added a 1911. I kept loading on a single stage for several months or probably 2K rounds. Then I bought a RCBS Piggyback II. So much to watch all at once with a progressive. Had a number of occasional issues, primers not feeding, bullets not seating correctly, spilled powder if I removed a shell case, etc. I learned. However I had a good base knowledge of the basics. I understood from the get-go how to adjust my die set for the progressive, one die at a time. I payed attention. To this day with loading .45acp I seat and crimp in different dies. If your friend is wanting to start with a square deal "b" that's not an option. IMHO for the price difference between getting set up for single stage vs progressive you can buy a good supply of components to get a good base knowledge.

I am not anti-progressive by any means. I still use the piggyback II on a dedicated reloader 5 press. I also have an early Hornady progressive, not sure of the model, with several shell plates. Plus a Star set up for .38 special. I have never used it, waiting until I build a new bench. Progressives have their place but I don't think they are a good tool to start with.

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wimilkman posted this 17 February 2023

I learned on a very old C&H single stage with 2 sets of used mixed brand dies for 357 & 45 auto that my father in-law gave me. He had them in his shed and was going to junk them. You had to lift up on the press handle to operate it but he helped me get it all going and I can tell you I learned a lot with that setup and it is the best way to learn to reload IMO using a single stage press. I used that setup for 3 years before I got my turret press which I love. I had a friend give me a blue progressive press, he just hated it as that is what he tried to learn to reload on, I ended up selling it and gave him the money but he gave me half just for selling it. He ended up with a single stage and then went to a turret like I did. I have been using turret presses for 27 years and love them.

I don't have anything against progressives, but unless you are loading lots of ammo it is my belief that they are more press than you need plus I like to have more control over the process and like to load at a slower pace. 

Fred Honeyager

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Shopdog posted this 17 February 2023

On load development;

The ability to load at the range can not be overstated.... so again, even if you had a bevy of progressive loaders,a range setup with a SS press on the ole tailgate cuts to the chase pretty durn quick.

I absolutely don't do high volume loading. A simple pleasure is looking into a block of 50 charged pistol cases with a mini maglight that's been on our bench for 20+ years. I even look into all rifle cases. Too old/stubborn to change.

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Waleone posted this 17 February 2023

Like almost everyone else, I started off with a single stage. My kids bought me a progressive, brand does not matter. It's a nice press, works great, but too much going on at once for Mr. Obsessive! I'm much more comfortable running brass through one step at a time and concentrating on that one step at a time. Life is short enough without taking the chance of making it even shorter with a double charge or some other oversight. The progressive press pretty much just takes up space on my bench and collects dust, maybe some day I will give it a try again.

Wayne

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Aaron posted this 17 February 2023

Well frankly, I don't think there were too many progressive presses back in the Civil War when we all started handloading. smile

New handloaders are faced with the most available and diverse equipment we have ever seen in out collective 70 years of handloading. I can appreciate the new loader desiring a 5,000 round per hour loading machine but these machines are very complicated to set up and operate. I can only imagine the frustration it may cause a new loader when attempting to run one of these modern marvels and not knowing the "basics" of the process from end to end.

I like the others would advise the new loader to start with a good single stage press, learn and internalize the process and intricacies of the craft, and then, after they are journeymen, invest in a quality progressive press if they actually need one.

My Dillon  is a marvel and has served me for decades with my high volume ammo for competition. My Rock Chucker is my "go to" press for everything else and with my experience at using it, and my knowledge of the loading process, is rather fast to produce 50 or a hundred rounds of such and such.

I stand on the single stage first side of the discussion for all of the reasons and cautions mentioned prior.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Fiddler posted this 17 February 2023

Lyman Spartan for 55 + years, had a Lee single for a few years but it didn't last. Never considered a progressive. 

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Idahocaster posted this 17 February 2023

The only press I have owned in 12 years of reloading is a Lee hand press. I don't have room for a bench where i could permanently mount a press. I do not load a high volume of cartridges, usually one or two hours worth of work at a time. It had always done the job for me. Like some others have mentioned, I like the slower pace and the chance to inspect everything I do as it happens.

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Lee Guthrie posted this 17 February 2023

There some folks here that have been loading longer than me, but ....

Around 1965 I began loading with a MEC 600 Jr. for shotguns and on a friends (old geezer then like I am now) C&H, Lyman, and Pacific equipment for pistol and rifle.  It was ALL single stage.

Most of my loading is done on an RCBS Rock Chucker.  Yes, I have a Dillon when mass quantities of pistol ammo are needing to be loaded.  Shotgun ammo (.410, 28, 20, 12, & 10) is still done on a 600 Jr. 

Without any hesitation I recommend strongly that a newbie NOT begin on a progressive.  All the reasons mentioned by those above mitigate against beginning the journey on a progressive.  If you visit the loading and casting forums on FaceBook and others it seems that all the newbies want to begin at the summit and not climb from the bottom up.  Then they ask questions that should have, and would have, been learned from a carefull and deliberate start.  Frustrations are far less and safety is greatly enhanced with a single stage.  Sigh, but for those whose interests are only in cartridges that go into magazines that hold 20-40 rounds and spit them out as fast as the trigger can be pulled  --  a single stage is out of the question no matter how much you try to convince them.  angry

 

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foesgth posted this 17 February 2023

I have faced this problem.  There has recently been a huge interest in reloading...just look at ammo prices.  They almost all want to start with a progressive.  When they do they almost always make bad ammo.  If you can't talk your buddy out of a progressive then have him get a progressive that doesn't auto-index.  Like a Dillon 550.  A press like that can be used as a single stage until he is up to speed.  If he will do that.

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

I want to thank you all for your candid replies! I too am of the same opinion, it would be highly difficult to say the least, to learn the basics on such a complicated piece of equipment. I don't own, and have never used a progressive press. Not that I don't like them, but I don't load that kind of quantity in any of my calibers. I agree with all of the arguments against beginning with  progressive. My friend is very head strong but if I can show him the same arguments as mine from other seasoned reloading veterans, he will get my point.

Thank you again for all of your input, though it may look negative to some, it is exactly what my opinion is. I started on a Lee single stage that I still have, I then bought a Lee Classic Cast press for my "heavy lifting" and just a couple years ago I bought a turret press that is the one I use for quantity. But like you all, I like to look at each charge of powder before continuing and the turret press easily allows for that.

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sluggo posted this 17 February 2023

A good single stage press will keep you from making mistakes that can happen with a progressive setup. I was gifted a a really nice rcbs progressive several years ago. I mostly use it to bell the case mouth, charge, seat, and taper crimp .45 acp. and 9mm. As noted above a single stage is way more portable than a progressive.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 February 2023

..single stage all the way ... BUT : ... the Lee Classic Cast turret is almost a single stage ... and for some reason, I believe the single station Classic Cast is listed as more $$ than the CC Turret right now ...

yep, I started with a Herter's  #3 ... still use it ... have a Lee hand press ... very handy ... a Forster/Bonanza , a Lee single Classic Cast ... using a single stage is good therapy ... floating on a lily pad on a gentle blue lake with swans ...

a progressive press is like a Glock pistol ... you should live in a constant state of anxiety, fear, and self-doubt all the time you are near it ... ... oh, and a lot of humbleness ... you are making mistakes ... can you spot them in time ?? ...

ken ... secure in what I don't know ...

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

Thanks to all of you for the replies. I just went to his home and we had a good discussion on the topic, took the laptop to show him your replies. He now agrees with us and is looking towards a either single stage or a Lee Classic Cast turret, both of which I own. Later, after he reads his manual, he is going to come by and I'm going to let him assemble some rounds on my Lee Breech Lock SS press. I certainly appreciate having so much agreement from reloading veterans with more knowledge than I.

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Tom Acheson posted this 18 February 2023

One more vote for the single stage press.

If I shot action pistol or NRA Bullseye, I might be lured into looking at a progressive press. I’m a lot more interested in taking my time reloading, in search of accuracy, which a single stage lends itself to, as opposed to “speedy reloading”. Haste makes waste!

Tom

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Buttersdad posted this 19 February 2023

I agree Tom. I never had to load a thousand rounds in a couple hours to get done what I needed. On top of that I like the fact that I can check my loads at every stage if I want to. This man is actually our Pastor and he is always going three directions at the same time in our small town. He also talked about downloading reloading manuals with Kindle on his phone. I said NO, don't take your phone into the reloading room/space. I don't allow any possible distractions in my reloading room. If I get a call on my phone, my wife answers and tells them I'll call back shortly. I then get to a place where I can stop and keep track usually at the end of loading 50 cartridges, then I make the call. This is what I told him, after I explained how easy it could be to double charge a pistol case and what that could cause, he understood. I'm glad we got him to understand. Thanks again y'all.

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