What type of press?

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

This isn't about a comparison of brands or types. I'm curious as to how many reloaders started out as beginners with a progressive press.

I am helping a friend with getting back into shooting now for a couple months. Today I find he is looking at hand loading as I have been talking about my operation. I have been reloading for 20+ years and he's talking of starting off with a progressive press operation. I have a few concerns of a beginner starting on a progressive. Especially as anxious as he seems to be.

I was wondering how many have started as beginners with a progressive setup. 

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delmarskid posted this 20 March 2023

Mine was a CH open faced single stage. I was in hog heaven after stepping up from a Lee Loader. I didn’t have to “fit and try” my range pickups anymore.

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Samari46 posted this 19 March 2023

Started hand loading shortly after I got out of the Navy in 1967.Bought a Rock chucker single stage press and it's over 50 some odd years old. Loaded just about everything I shoot. Bought a Dillon when I started shooting at local steel plate matches. I could not even guess how many 45 acp rounds I've loaded on the Dillon. Still setup for the 45 acp. I use store bought 230 grain hard cast round nosed bullets for my two 1911A1's. One is a 1943 Ithaca and the other is a 20 year old Springfield Armory ( the one in Illinois} that I bought. Still use the rock chucker along with a Lee classic press. Frank

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Buttersdad posted this 21 February 2023

My friend was fascinated with the speed I think. But when I checked back after posting here and getting so many replies, I offered to show him. He looked through the available presses and decided a single is the best first for him. 

I agree that one could very well start on a progressive, but for most of us including me, one may easily get into trouble due to the speed. Like it was said above it could be easy to assemble a number of mistakes. 

I did also tell him about the Lee 4 hole Classic Cast turret press, and that it could start as a single stage and when he is well familiar with the process he could replace the auto index rod and reload a bit faster. 

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longhunter posted this 21 February 2023

Ok,

I started with a  Lee tool. The kind you use a plastic mallet with.

I had a Remington 700 in .243.  I shot 2" groups with it.  So now I have a Dillon and a RCBS (3) of them. 

I'm sure that rifle would still shoot 2" groups with all my loaders, using the scope and powder charge of the times.

I do use my Dillion for all my cast bullet loading, pistol and rifle. So use what works for you!

Jon

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret.

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Tom Acheson posted this 20 February 2023

Just a short follow-up note to my earlier comment.

My first press was an RCBS Junior. My dad bought it for me in 1974. At the time I was handloading .38 and ,357 for revolver.  Then in 1990 I went to the handgun silhouette championships in Ft. Stockton. When I signed in, I was given a drawing ticket for a door prize and in my case I won a RCBS Rock Chucker press. Ever since then I’ve used that Rock Chucker and the Junior is used for loading @ the range during load development. If I had won a progressive, I would have sold it. Wouldn’t know what to do with it, especially with my non-straightwall silhouette cartridge cases. However, over the years I have bought other Dillon products.

My cast bullet bump unit is built on a Rock Chucker press.

Tom

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SkinnerD posted this 20 February 2023

Well I guess I'm the odd one out. I started on a Dillon 550B. Loading 45ACP. Did I have a happy time? Not for a few years. The guy who advised and "taught" me didn't really know or have confidence in how they work. To the point he was afraid of changing calibres between 45ACP and 38sp because it meant changing the primer bar. He also didn't really understand how the powder return tension bar spring should be adjusted. Finally, my brand new press had it turned out a manufacturing defect in the large primer bar where the cup pin was slightly offset. For a variety of reasons but mostly cost I didn't shoot a lot the first couple of years. My finances also restricted me to a well worn Essex 1911 "catalogue" Pistol with a sear problem I had no idea about. 3 years after I bought the press, and 2 home relocations, I finally got serious about reloading. I found the issue with the large primer bar on painstaking analysis. My new gunsmith took one look at the sear on the Essex, spent 10 minutes truing it on a jig and all of a sudden I was in business. Over the next few months I learned that Dillon press backwards. My now reliable gun lifted me to high middle of the Club competitions and all with my reloads. I bought calibre conversion kits and dies for 38sp/357mag, 30-30, 303B and eventually 9mm. I found that for rifle reloafing it is an amazingly adaptable batch loading press when used as a single stage. Like a Lee Turret press. In the years since, I've owned and used Lee, Lyman and RCBS single stages, the Lee Hand press, Lee Loaders, and the Lee Pro 1000 Progressive. I have a bunch of them still. There are plenty of good presses I don't know about from personal experience but If I was mentoring a beginner, according to their budget, I would as first choice start them on a Dillon 550B..why? Because it can be used in single stage or manual advance progressive modes, Pistol or rifle, and might well be the only press they ever own. And, I am totally confident now in my ability to teach them. Second choice would be a new Lee Classic Cast 4 hole auto index Turret. Fantastic presses half the price of the Dillon and the auto index actually works all the time. If they are strapped for cash third choice would be a good order manual advance used Lee 3 hole turret. But throw the auto index away. Last choice would be any good order single stage press but likely a Lee Challenger. I would shoot myself before recommending a Lee Pro 1000. I've rebuilt a basket case one successfully and owned two others but only because I'm a glutton for masochistic punishment. Learning single stage reloading is key. But its a mistake to think single stage reloading dictates a single stage press. Yes, I'll never now be without one. But you can learn single stage reloading on a Dillon 550B or a Lee turret including their 4 hole auto-index. No doubt other brands as well. Don't arbitrarily limit a beginner to a single stage Press. Its not the fault of the press that a beginner doesn't learn right. Unless its a Lee Pro 1000 of course. With those all bets are off.

John - New Zealand

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Bud Hyett posted this 20 February 2023

A thought on training reloading to a new person. I tell anyone requesting training there will be two sessions with at least a 24-hour time lapse between them and these will be at least four hours each.

The first session I walk them through all the steps starting with the Lyman Reloading Manual as a guide. Then we review the cost and savings of reloading including the simple starter reloading kits all major manufactures offer. I tell them reloading tools can be bought more cheaply at gun shows and forums on the Web. We also look at the progressive press as a future addition.

The second session they walk me through all the steps again with the Lyman Reloading Manual as a guide. This way I know they have the steps down and can proceed without me. We again review the cost of starting and the eventual savings. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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JimmyDee posted this 20 February 2023

Start with a progressive?  I'm glad I didn't.  First was a Herter's press, then a Dillon Square Deal, then upgraded the Square Deal to a Dillon 550B.  I have added a Forster Co-Ax and another Dillon 550B.  The Herter's still gets use for odd case work: pulling jacketed bullets with a collet, some case trimming, pulling stuck cases, hardness testing -- stuff like that.

The Dillons - one small primer, one large primer -- are used for volume (9, 38, 45, 223/556, 308) and the single stage Forster for single-shot and bolt action rifles.

Using a progressive press, there's too much going on with each pull of the lever for a novice, I believe.  When reloading, things happen that require clearing the press every couple hundred rounds or so and it's very easy to miss a step and produce a round with no charge or a double charge.  New or painstakingly prepared brass seldom causes issues but split necks, Berdan cases, and flipped or missing primers are not uncommon otherwise.

I've helped newbies set up their single stage presses; it took quite a bit of time and repetition before they understood what was going on at each step.  I guess one could learn on a progressive if one round at a time was run through all the stations but the ammunition wouldn't be as uniform as when all the stations are full.

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Wm Cook posted this 19 February 2023

When interesting threads appear you sometimes have to read others opinions and think about where you came from and where you are today before you can fully wrap your head around the topic.  So having thought about progressive vs single stage press I thought I would add a second comment about Eddie's OP. 

I started reloading/casting which was around 1990.  I was a late bloomer.  My first press was a nice Redding turret press.  Soon after that I added an RCBS junior press.  Thinking about how much use each of them had I'm pretty sure that about 99.99% of everything I loaded back then was on the Jr press.  By now its pretty worn and the ram binds if I'm not smooth and straight about bringing it up into position.  It'll has to be replaced this year. It'll probably be a Harrell or a Forester.

When I started shooting PPC benchrest I started using a Harrell press, Harrell in line seaters and Wilson loading dies.  Today I use the Harrell equipment and Wilson neck and seating dies for most everything. 

Life through me a couple curve a few years back and I had to rethink what I really needed and would realistically be able to have time to use in the remaining years I have left. My priorities have always been bolt guns, SA revolvers, lever guns and pump guns.  That's always been my sweet spot and didn't have a need for anything else.  But with this crazy world we're living in I felt the urge to add some home and property defense into the mix.  Something simple you could point and shoot so that even my wife could use to hit a tin can at 50, coffee can at 100.  So when I consolidated and fleshed out my armaments I decided to fit in a 9mm and a 7.62.

So for the first time I considered a faster way to load one cartridge, with one powder, one charge and one bullet.  I kind of set a pretty low bar for expectations.  I spent too much time cleaning up spilt powder, shot with my MEC shotgun reloader. 

Once again I agree with Ken:

..single stage all the way ... BUT : ... the Lee Classic Cast turret is almost a single stage ... and for some reason, I believe the single station Classic Cast is listed as more $$ than the CC Tu

The only use I can imagine for a progressive press is if it is dedicated to one cartridge, powder and bullet.  With all the futzing around you have to do I wouldn't have the patience to tweak a load by changing components or worse case going from a 9mm to a 308.  So when I changed out my equipment I included a Lee Classic Turret press and a couple of those four hole aluminum things that hold the dies.  Most everything with Lee is cost effective enough that I got a second powder measure so when I changed from 9 to 7.62 it would be a plug and play scenario. 

But the relationship between the Lee turret and me has been tentative.  I've had everything for a couple years and am now just getting round to working up 9mm and 7.62 loads.  Neither rifle has been shot.  I was kind of like an old man looking at an espresso machine still in the box sitting unused on his counter for a couple years as he continues to use his old percolator coffer maker and drinking his coffee black.

But the both the 9mm and the 7.62 are going to come on line in the next couple of months.  I'll use my single stage press to get the powder, charge, bullet, COAL.  Then I'll take a week and see if I can get the Lee up and running.  First the 9mm then the 7.62.  If I can get that far I believe the Lee turret may work out. 

But for the second time I want to stress that the only way I could ever get a progressive up and running would be with a single stage press and the needed equipment. 

By the way; I gave that Redding turret press to a new reloader about 10 years ago.  With the manual turning of the turret it would make a fine starter press.  I fell in love with the RCBS Jr press because it was compact and portable and let me load at the range. 

An all said and done, I still rather be working a bolt gun trying to get all 5 shots through the same hole.  So for me I'm opening up to new ideas and way of doing things.  My wife is always encouraging me to grow my interpersonal feelings .

Good luck to the new reloader.  Watch them double charges!!  Bill Cook.

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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delmarskid posted this 19 February 2023

I use a turret press most of the time. It’s quicker for me than a single (which I use) . That being said I loaded most of my high power match ammo on a progressive press using loads I worked up on my Lyman turret press. I wouldn’t start with a progressive. It’s too easy to mass produce mistakes. If a person has the self discipline to run one round at a time until they are ready it may go better.

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tony1960 posted this 19 February 2023

Single stage for sure. Bought mine 45+ years ago and still use it regularly, never had a dud round yet. I do have four progressive presses but as the years pass and components are more difficult to source I find I do not spend as much time blazing away as I used to. I have had dud rounds from the progressive but all my fault for not looking and taking in what is going on. Is there a specific reason that your friend wants/needs a progressive? If so then you will not sway the committed, but maybe common sense will prevail. I have a friend who’s first purchase was a progressive press, his second was a bullet puller, couldn’t borrow mine…..I don’t have one.

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Buttersdad posted this 19 February 2023

I agree Tom. I never had to load a thousand rounds in a couple hours to get done what I needed. On top of that I like the fact that I can check my loads at every stage if I want to. This man is actually our Pastor and he is always going three directions at the same time in our small town. He also talked about downloading reloading manuals with Kindle on his phone. I said NO, don't take your phone into the reloading room/space. I don't allow any possible distractions in my reloading room. If I get a call on my phone, my wife answers and tells them I'll call back shortly. I then get to a place where I can stop and keep track usually at the end of loading 50 cartridges, then I make the call. This is what I told him, after I explained how easy it could be to double charge a pistol case and what that could cause, he understood. I'm glad we got him to understand. Thanks again y'all.

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Tom Acheson posted this 18 February 2023

One more vote for the single stage press.

If I shot action pistol or NRA Bullseye, I might be lured into looking at a progressive press. I’m a lot more interested in taking my time reloading, in search of accuracy, which a single stage lends itself to, as opposed to “speedy reloading”. Haste makes waste!

Tom

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

Thanks to all of you for the replies. I just went to his home and we had a good discussion on the topic, took the laptop to show him your replies. He now agrees with us and is looking towards a either single stage or a Lee Classic Cast turret, both of which I own. Later, after he reads his manual, he is going to come by and I'm going to let him assemble some rounds on my Lee Breech Lock SS press. I certainly appreciate having so much agreement from reloading veterans with more knowledge than I.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 February 2023

..single stage all the way ... BUT : ... the Lee Classic Cast turret is almost a single stage ... and for some reason, I believe the single station Classic Cast is listed as more $$ than the CC Turret right now ...

yep, I started with a Herter's  #3 ... still use it ... have a Lee hand press ... very handy ... a Forster/Bonanza , a Lee single Classic Cast ... using a single stage is good therapy ... floating on a lily pad on a gentle blue lake with swans ...

a progressive press is like a Glock pistol ... you should live in a constant state of anxiety, fear, and self-doubt all the time you are near it ... ... oh, and a lot of humbleness ... you are making mistakes ... can you spot them in time ?? ...

ken ... secure in what I don't know ...

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sluggo posted this 17 February 2023

A good single stage press will keep you from making mistakes that can happen with a progressive setup. I was gifted a a really nice rcbs progressive several years ago. I mostly use it to bell the case mouth, charge, seat, and taper crimp .45 acp. and 9mm. As noted above a single stage is way more portable than a progressive.

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Buttersdad posted this 17 February 2023

I want to thank you all for your candid replies! I too am of the same opinion, it would be highly difficult to say the least, to learn the basics on such a complicated piece of equipment. I don't own, and have never used a progressive press. Not that I don't like them, but I don't load that kind of quantity in any of my calibers. I agree with all of the arguments against beginning with  progressive. My friend is very head strong but if I can show him the same arguments as mine from other seasoned reloading veterans, he will get my point.

Thank you again for all of your input, though it may look negative to some, it is exactly what my opinion is. I started on a Lee single stage that I still have, I then bought a Lee Classic Cast press for my "heavy lifting" and just a couple years ago I bought a turret press that is the one I use for quantity. But like you all, I like to look at each charge of powder before continuing and the turret press easily allows for that.

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foesgth posted this 17 February 2023

I have faced this problem.  There has recently been a huge interest in reloading...just look at ammo prices.  They almost all want to start with a progressive.  When they do they almost always make bad ammo.  If you can't talk your buddy out of a progressive then have him get a progressive that doesn't auto-index.  Like a Dillon 550.  A press like that can be used as a single stage until he is up to speed.  If he will do that.

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Lee Guthrie posted this 17 February 2023

There some folks here that have been loading longer than me, but ....

Around 1965 I began loading with a MEC 600 Jr. for shotguns and on a friends (old geezer then like I am now) C&H, Lyman, and Pacific equipment for pistol and rifle.  It was ALL single stage.

Most of my loading is done on an RCBS Rock Chucker.  Yes, I have a Dillon when mass quantities of pistol ammo are needing to be loaded.  Shotgun ammo (.410, 28, 20, 12, & 10) is still done on a 600 Jr. 

Without any hesitation I recommend strongly that a newbie NOT begin on a progressive.  All the reasons mentioned by those above mitigate against beginning the journey on a progressive.  If you visit the loading and casting forums on FaceBook and others it seems that all the newbies want to begin at the summit and not climb from the bottom up.  Then they ask questions that should have, and would have, been learned from a carefull and deliberate start.  Frustrations are far less and safety is greatly enhanced with a single stage.  Sigh, but for those whose interests are only in cartridges that go into magazines that hold 20-40 rounds and spit them out as fast as the trigger can be pulled  --  a single stage is out of the question no matter how much you try to convince them.  angry

 

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Idahocaster posted this 17 February 2023

The only press I have owned in 12 years of reloading is a Lee hand press. I don't have room for a bench where i could permanently mount a press. I do not load a high volume of cartridges, usually one or two hours worth of work at a time. It had always done the job for me. Like some others have mentioned, I like the slower pace and the chance to inspect everything I do as it happens.

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