Lee 300AAC/X39 Range test

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Last Post 06 June 2015

Standard Member

onondaga posted this 17 May 2013

It's been a long wait but the “No Blue Sky” update to my club range is finished. Picture below, at the top is barely visible the overhead baffles. This is the setup with chrono at 10 feet and target at 50 yards.

I test fired my Remington Spartan 7.62X39 at low velocities with the new Lee 300 AAC bullet cast in #2 alloy, unchecked and sized .3125"

Chrono, 5 shots with 6.9 gr H TiteGroup; Avg. 1,117 fps, ES-4 Chrono, 5 shots with 8.0 gr H TiteGroup; Avg. 1,202 fps, ES-7

Both load levels exhibited unstable bullets with the faster load keyholing 2 out of 25 shots and the slower having minor problems at 50 yards and grouping good enough for squirrel heads at 50 yards. Next, I have used charge reduction software and targeted a load for 950 fps. I believe the lower velocity load will be more stable and group tighter. 5.6 gr H Titegroup was projected for 950 fps. This new Lee bullet is designed to be fired sub-sonic and I believe it will do best at design velocities. So I will be polishing brass and start loading the new charge soon. Gary

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5170136_zps760be92f.jpg.html>http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5170135_zpseedd7772.jpg.html>

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

The bullets are seated way out there, just about where shown in this dummy round and engage the lands .010".

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/300AAC.jpg.html>

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2013

What is the rate of twist in your rifle? 10"?

I have one of these molds on the way, I want to try in the. 30-40 Krag, .303 British, and 7.62x54R. Don't care if subsonic, just want an accurate 200-yard load.

Would like to hear from anyone who has tried in standard ctgs.

I was thinking long the line of 12 grs. of #2400 in the above.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 18 May 2013

I have the same rifle and mould. What were the diameters of your cast bullets? (bore riding and grooved portion)

Mine is a bit too small for a standard .300/.308 bore being .004 UNDERSIZED for the bore riding portion.

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris Yes Ed, the twist is 1:10, I just checked. I will be trying the suggestions gotten from you and others with this bullet. The 5.6 grain charge will be the next load and I will try it with the bullets and some options. The #2 alloy bullets on hand will be tried without and with gas checks and I will also cast more bullets in BHN 7-8 soft range scrap,with and without checks sized 3125” and un-sized at about .313".

The #2 alloy bullets will also be tried with and without checks in my 1903A3 from 1850 to 2000 fps. Last the bullets will be tried fired base first through a range of hunting velocities. So, I have a lot of range time planned this bullet with my range finally open. I have plenty of powders but am down to my last 1,000 LR primers. Thanks for your suggestions and good luck with your trials of this bullet.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=97>TRK:

Ouch!! Mine cast nice and large ~ .313 and a bit out of round to .3142” on the bands and .301-.302” nose. This is with #2 alloy, 620 Deg pot and dropping 3 times a minute. I don't think the softer range scrap alloy will cast that large when I try it.

Gary

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CBA Member

delmarskid1 posted this 18 May 2013

I like the looks of your range. Our over heads are tilted flux core concrete and the noise is ungodly.

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

I realized that the caption from my ON TARGET program screen about the group size is too small for most to read, it says:

Max: 0.716", 1.367 moa ATC: 0.296", 0.566 moa Width: 0.677", Height: 0.580" Target Distance: 50 yards

Yes, this is squirrel head good accuracy! The literature from Hodgdon on H. TiteGroup has proven true. This powder lights very consistently with even tiny charges in large cases and the ES of velocity is tiny too. I'm very happy with TiteGroup in the 7.62X39 for low level loads.

Gary

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Standard Member

richidaho posted this 19 May 2013

Gary,

What are you trying to achieve I have a sub-sonic load for the 300aac. Using #2 lyman lead and gas checks with homemade lube. The mold I'm using is the Lee TL309-230-5r. I use them with a silencer in an AR type gun. I have never choreographed the load but I can get a 4” group at 100 meters dead rest. The load is 5.2 grains of IMR 8208 XBR, This is just the right amount of powder/filler to make my AR type rife feed. 5.1 and my rife will not feed. I use the Puff-Lon to help lube the gun. The rest of the case is filed to the top with Puff-Lon lubrication ballistic filler. The bullet is then pressed into the case and factory crimped using a Lee factory crimp die. For the semi-auto you have to be very careful about the length of the bullet extending from the case. I have found not all AR type chambers are the same. And, man can you stick a case in the chamber if you are not carful. Then the butt to the ground method is required to remove the case.I have never shot the gun more then 100 times before cleaning but it is very clean ever after 100 rounds. With this load you don't hardly need a silencer but with one it is very quiet.

Rich L

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onondaga posted this 19 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6605>richidaho:

What I am trying to achieve here is a quiet, sub-sonic Squirrel load for a rifle that is comfortable and accurate with a Deer load already.

I've got a great shooting cast Deer load for this rifle with the 165 gr big meplat RanchDog bullet. Plus I have pretty good Squirrel load in this rifle with the Lee (TL314-90-SWC) a 32 Ca. 90 grain SWC pistol bullet sized .3125” and 2.9 grains H.TiteGroup, but the possibility with the Lee 300AAC ( TL309-230-5r) bullet looks pretty good for it to out shoot the 90 gr SWC pistol bullet.

Just a few shooters are beginning to try the new heavy AAC bullet from Lee, the reports are mixed and I wanted to try it in my 7.62X39mm single shot Remington Spartan Rifle. They cast plenty big for me and I'm giving Lee's new bullet a try. Also, there is a high level of interest in powder selection for sub-sonic rifle loads that are simple with no filler and the H.TiteGroup seems a good interesting candidate for me to prove performance of the powder in this application.

Nice Question, thanks and I hope the answer is what you were looking for.

P.S. That Puflon filler is not an inert filler, it is a vegetable based powdered dietary fiber with a powdered dry lubricant. Puflon will attract ambient moisture out of the air and effect your load. I have tried it, it is costly and you might prefer the inert ground high heat plastic, fluffy compressible particulate filler from BPI:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb

BPI Original is recommended by the maker for use as a ballistic filler. It is about 75% lighter than corn meal and a nice lightweight inert filler that does not attract moisture. It meters well from my old Lyman #55 powder measure with the clapper .

If you really like Puflon any anyway, you can duplicate it inexpensively with bulk unflavored powdered dietary fiber from your pharmacy or feed supply plus about 2-3% motor mica or powdered graphite.

Alternatively, I'm sure you could add dry lube to BPI if you feel that is the what makes your filler work.

Gary

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

I finally got a chance to cast some bullets out of my Lee Blackhawk mold and try them in .30-'06.

Bullets cast of wheelweights .311” diameter ahead of the boattail, body diameter .3095", bore riding nose .302". Bullet overall length is 1.35” and it weighs 230 grains bare in wheelweights.

I wasn't sure if a ten-inch twist would stabilize this or not, but assembled a handful of rounds using 7.8 grains of Bullseye in once-fired Remington range pickup brass and Remington 9-1/2 primers, seating the bullets to 3.32” OAL. These fed fine from my Winchester 54 bolt action with only slight resistance to bolt closure.

Bullets were shot as-cast and unsized, lightly lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. Sample of ten rounds averaged 1058 fps, with standard deviation 10 fps, extreme spread 33 fps.

Shooting at the steel gong at 100 yards with open sights, using the second folding leaf on the Euro style open sight, which normally provides a 300 yard zero for 180-gr. factory loads, the subsonic rounds strike the top of the bead at 100 yards. Casual group was about 5-6” ringing the freshly painted gong while chronographing, for 10+ rounds

Loading more rounds to try in my scoped Mauser sporter.... Stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CBA Member

tturner53 posted this 29 May 2013

No gas check?

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

Your diameter sounds nice for your application too Ed. I use my bag of tricks to cast for maximum diameter with #2 alloy and also use a .303 Brit modified mandrel in my 7.62X39mm Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die. That collet gives me a bigger neck size that just chambers and has light but safe neck tension on my cast bullets; I'm convinced mine are as big as they can be in my rifle and I feel them slide in the throat when loading my single shot rifle.

Also, I just loaded 25 rounds with the 5.6 grains of H. TiteGroup projected to yield the 950 fps I am looking to try next with the Blackout bullet in 7.62X39mm.

A quicker twist than our 1:10 might be a big difference with these heavy bullets, But, we have what we have!

Gary

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onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53:

I haven't tried the gas checks on them yet, but I will. Currently my testing is at low pressure/low velocity in 7.62X39mm and I will try the checks when I step the loads for my other rifles in .30 cal.

Gary

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

Hornady gaschecks will not seat and crimp on the boattail heel of my bullets without turning up a burr and deforming the base.

I'm going to see if accuracy improves with modest increases in velocity within the pressure limits of using the bullets as-cast, without a GC. Next series will probably be with 11-12 grs. of #2400 in the '06.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

tturner53 wrote: No gas check?

CORRECT! No gascheck. Simple, frugal.

Frank Marshall would approve!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

These are sized/checked at .3105” with a honed up Lee push-through die for my 30-06.

No grief with Sage's aluminum checks.

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5290148_zps7d55dbf1.jpg.html>

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris: These are sized/checked at .3105” with a Lee push-through die for my 30-06. No grief with Sage's aluminum checks.

Thx. I see no need to add to the cost for very light loads which don't require them. Defeats the frugal purpose and adds an unnecessary step.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CBA Member

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 May 2013

re: twist for the blackhawke lee

i think ... if the bullets dont wobble at 25 yards also not at 200 ( actually at max range ) then the best twist is the slowest that can give that stability.

the 30 cal mj benchresters ( 125 gr typical wt. bullets ) are around 17 twist .

hey, midway delivered my blackops mold ! must be in stock again ?

i love ed's m54 win ... i have a 54 action and schnable stock ... also a x39 barrel ... think i will arrange a romantic blind date ...

life is good

ken

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onondaga posted this 18 June 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

I completed chronograph and accuracy testing with the Lee 300AAC in 7.62X39mm at a subsonic velocity average of 971.8 fps with 5.6 gr H TiteGroup. Velocity is the average of 25 shots with an ES of 12. My barrel length is 24” for your reference.

Accuracy did not improve with the new lower velocity as expected and group opened up to 1.859” or 3.551 moa @ 50 yards with this 10 shot group. One shot out of the total 25 shots tested did not stabilize and left an elongated hole on this target. The far left 3 shots touching has the middle hole elongated noticeably toward the 2 o'clock direction.

My goal of a load with better squirrel head accuracy using the AAC bullet did not come to fruition and surpass the Lee TL314-90-SWC. The 90 grain bullet sized .3125” and tumble lubed groups much better in my rifle at 1160 fps for a great squirrel load. But I had a fun day at the range anyway with My 1903A3 shooting spectacular groups using a different bullet!

I will still test the AAC bullet in other calibers but you can see it is not a squirrel head 50 yard bullet in 7.62X39mm at low or subsonic velocity for my rifle:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P6180154_zps6ead184b.jpg.html>