Lee 300AAC/X39 Range test

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Last Post 06 June 2015

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onondaga posted this 17 May 2013

It's been a long wait but the “No Blue Sky” update to my club range is finished. Picture below, at the top is barely visible the overhead baffles. This is the setup with chrono at 10 feet and target at 50 yards.

I test fired my Remington Spartan 7.62X39 at low velocities with the new Lee 300 AAC bullet cast in #2 alloy, unchecked and sized .3125"

Chrono, 5 shots with 6.9 gr H TiteGroup; Avg. 1,117 fps, ES-4 Chrono, 5 shots with 8.0 gr H TiteGroup; Avg. 1,202 fps, ES-7

Both load levels exhibited unstable bullets with the faster load keyholing 2 out of 25 shots and the slower having minor problems at 50 yards and grouping good enough for squirrel heads at 50 yards. Next, I have used charge reduction software and targeted a load for 950 fps. I believe the lower velocity load will be more stable and group tighter. 5.6 gr H Titegroup was projected for 950 fps. This new Lee bullet is designed to be fired sub-sonic and I believe it will do best at design velocities. So I will be polishing brass and start loading the new charge soon. Gary

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5170136_zps760be92f.jpg.html>http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5170135_zpseedd7772.jpg.html>

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

The bullets are seated way out there, just about where shown in this dummy round and engage the lands .010".

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/300AAC.jpg.html>

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Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2013

What is the rate of twist in your rifle? 10"?

I have one of these molds on the way, I want to try in the. 30-40 Krag, .303 British, and 7.62x54R. Don't care if subsonic, just want an accurate 200-yard load.

Would like to hear from anyone who has tried in standard ctgs.

I was thinking long the line of 12 grs. of #2400 in the above.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 18 May 2013

I have the same rifle and mould. What were the diameters of your cast bullets? (bore riding and grooved portion)

Mine is a bit too small for a standard .300/.308 bore being .004 UNDERSIZED for the bore riding portion.

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris Yes Ed, the twist is 1:10, I just checked. I will be trying the suggestions gotten from you and others with this bullet. The 5.6 grain charge will be the next load and I will try it with the bullets and some options. The #2 alloy bullets on hand will be tried without and with gas checks and I will also cast more bullets in BHN 7-8 soft range scrap,with and without checks sized 3125” and un-sized at about .313".

The #2 alloy bullets will also be tried with and without checks in my 1903A3 from 1850 to 2000 fps. Last the bullets will be tried fired base first through a range of hunting velocities. So, I have a lot of range time planned this bullet with my range finally open. I have plenty of powders but am down to my last 1,000 LR primers. Thanks for your suggestions and good luck with your trials of this bullet.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=97>TRK:

Ouch!! Mine cast nice and large ~ .313 and a bit out of round to .3142” on the bands and .301-.302” nose. This is with #2 alloy, 620 Deg pot and dropping 3 times a minute. I don't think the softer range scrap alloy will cast that large when I try it.

Gary

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delmarskid1 posted this 18 May 2013

I like the looks of your range. Our over heads are tilted flux core concrete and the noise is ungodly.

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onondaga posted this 18 May 2013

I realized that the caption from my ON TARGET program screen about the group size is too small for most to read, it says:

Max: 0.716", 1.367 moa ATC: 0.296", 0.566 moa Width: 0.677", Height: 0.580" Target Distance: 50 yards

Yes, this is squirrel head good accuracy! The literature from Hodgdon on H. TiteGroup has proven true. This powder lights very consistently with even tiny charges in large cases and the ES of velocity is tiny too. I'm very happy with TiteGroup in the 7.62X39 for low level loads.

Gary

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richidaho posted this 19 May 2013

Gary,

What are you trying to achieve I have a sub-sonic load for the 300aac. Using #2 lyman lead and gas checks with homemade lube. The mold I'm using is the Lee TL309-230-5r. I use them with a silencer in an AR type gun. I have never choreographed the load but I can get a 4” group at 100 meters dead rest. The load is 5.2 grains of IMR 8208 XBR, This is just the right amount of powder/filler to make my AR type rife feed. 5.1 and my rife will not feed. I use the Puff-Lon to help lube the gun. The rest of the case is filed to the top with Puff-Lon lubrication ballistic filler. The bullet is then pressed into the case and factory crimped using a Lee factory crimp die. For the semi-auto you have to be very careful about the length of the bullet extending from the case. I have found not all AR type chambers are the same. And, man can you stick a case in the chamber if you are not carful. Then the butt to the ground method is required to remove the case.I have never shot the gun more then 100 times before cleaning but it is very clean ever after 100 rounds. With this load you don't hardly need a silencer but with one it is very quiet.

Rich L

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onondaga posted this 19 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6605>richidaho:

What I am trying to achieve here is a quiet, sub-sonic Squirrel load for a rifle that is comfortable and accurate with a Deer load already.

I've got a great shooting cast Deer load for this rifle with the 165 gr big meplat RanchDog bullet. Plus I have pretty good Squirrel load in this rifle with the Lee (TL314-90-SWC) a 32 Ca. 90 grain SWC pistol bullet sized .3125” and 2.9 grains H.TiteGroup, but the possibility with the Lee 300AAC ( TL309-230-5r) bullet looks pretty good for it to out shoot the 90 gr SWC pistol bullet.

Just a few shooters are beginning to try the new heavy AAC bullet from Lee, the reports are mixed and I wanted to try it in my 7.62X39mm single shot Remington Spartan Rifle. They cast plenty big for me and I'm giving Lee's new bullet a try. Also, there is a high level of interest in powder selection for sub-sonic rifle loads that are simple with no filler and the H.TiteGroup seems a good interesting candidate for me to prove performance of the powder in this application.

Nice Question, thanks and I hope the answer is what you were looking for.

P.S. That Puflon filler is not an inert filler, it is a vegetable based powdered dietary fiber with a powdered dry lubricant. Puflon will attract ambient moisture out of the air and effect your load. I have tried it, it is costly and you might prefer the inert ground high heat plastic, fluffy compressible particulate filler from BPI:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb

BPI Original is recommended by the maker for use as a ballistic filler. It is about 75% lighter than corn meal and a nice lightweight inert filler that does not attract moisture. It meters well from my old Lyman #55 powder measure with the clapper .

If you really like Puflon any anyway, you can duplicate it inexpensively with bulk unflavored powdered dietary fiber from your pharmacy or feed supply plus about 2-3% motor mica or powdered graphite.

Alternatively, I'm sure you could add dry lube to BPI if you feel that is the what makes your filler work.

Gary

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

I finally got a chance to cast some bullets out of my Lee Blackhawk mold and try them in .30-'06.

Bullets cast of wheelweights .311” diameter ahead of the boattail, body diameter .3095", bore riding nose .302". Bullet overall length is 1.35” and it weighs 230 grains bare in wheelweights.

I wasn't sure if a ten-inch twist would stabilize this or not, but assembled a handful of rounds using 7.8 grains of Bullseye in once-fired Remington range pickup brass and Remington 9-1/2 primers, seating the bullets to 3.32” OAL. These fed fine from my Winchester 54 bolt action with only slight resistance to bolt closure.

Bullets were shot as-cast and unsized, lightly lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. Sample of ten rounds averaged 1058 fps, with standard deviation 10 fps, extreme spread 33 fps.

Shooting at the steel gong at 100 yards with open sights, using the second folding leaf on the Euro style open sight, which normally provides a 300 yard zero for 180-gr. factory loads, the subsonic rounds strike the top of the bead at 100 yards. Casual group was about 5-6” ringing the freshly painted gong while chronographing, for 10+ rounds

Loading more rounds to try in my scoped Mauser sporter.... Stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 29 May 2013

No gas check?

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onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

Your diameter sounds nice for your application too Ed. I use my bag of tricks to cast for maximum diameter with #2 alloy and also use a .303 Brit modified mandrel in my 7.62X39mm Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die. That collet gives me a bigger neck size that just chambers and has light but safe neck tension on my cast bullets; I'm convinced mine are as big as they can be in my rifle and I feel them slide in the throat when loading my single shot rifle.

Also, I just loaded 25 rounds with the 5.6 grains of H. TiteGroup projected to yield the 950 fps I am looking to try next with the Blackout bullet in 7.62X39mm.

A quicker twist than our 1:10 might be a big difference with these heavy bullets, But, we have what we have!

Gary

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onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53:

I haven't tried the gas checks on them yet, but I will. Currently my testing is at low pressure/low velocity in 7.62X39mm and I will try the checks when I step the loads for my other rifles in .30 cal.

Gary

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Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

Hornady gaschecks will not seat and crimp on the boattail heel of my bullets without turning up a burr and deforming the base.

I'm going to see if accuracy improves with modest increases in velocity within the pressure limits of using the bullets as-cast, without a GC. Next series will probably be with 11-12 grs. of #2400 in the '06.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

tturner53 wrote: No gas check?

CORRECT! No gascheck. Simple, frugal.

Frank Marshall would approve!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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onondaga posted this 29 May 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

These are sized/checked at .3105” with a honed up Lee push-through die for my 30-06.

No grief with Sage's aluminum checks.

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P5290148_zps7d55dbf1.jpg.html>

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Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2013

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris: These are sized/checked at .3105” with a Lee push-through die for my 30-06. No grief with Sage's aluminum checks.

Thx. I see no need to add to the cost for very light loads which don't require them. Defeats the frugal purpose and adds an unnecessary step.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 May 2013

re: twist for the blackhawke lee

i think ... if the bullets dont wobble at 25 yards also not at 200 ( actually at max range ) then the best twist is the slowest that can give that stability.

the 30 cal mj benchresters ( 125 gr typical wt. bullets ) are around 17 twist .

hey, midway delivered my blackops mold ! must be in stock again ?

i love ed's m54 win ... i have a 54 action and schnable stock ... also a x39 barrel ... think i will arrange a romantic blind date ...

life is good

ken

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onondaga posted this 18 June 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

I completed chronograph and accuracy testing with the Lee 300AAC in 7.62X39mm at a subsonic velocity average of 971.8 fps with 5.6 gr H TiteGroup. Velocity is the average of 25 shots with an ES of 12. My barrel length is 24” for your reference.

Accuracy did not improve with the new lower velocity as expected and group opened up to 1.859” or 3.551 moa @ 50 yards with this 10 shot group. One shot out of the total 25 shots tested did not stabilize and left an elongated hole on this target. The far left 3 shots touching has the middle hole elongated noticeably toward the 2 o'clock direction.

My goal of a load with better squirrel head accuracy using the AAC bullet did not come to fruition and surpass the Lee TL314-90-SWC. The 90 grain bullet sized .3125” and tumble lubed groups much better in my rifle at 1160 fps for a great squirrel load. But I had a fun day at the range anyway with My 1903A3 shooting spectacular groups using a different bullet!

I will still test the AAC bullet in other calibers but you can see it is not a squirrel head 50 yard bullet in 7.62X39mm at low or subsonic velocity for my rifle:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P6180154_zps6ead184b.jpg.html>

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Ed Harris posted this 18 June 2013

Tried 7.8 of Bullseye in my. 30-'06 Mauser sporter with 4X scope at 100 yds. Also 3 moa for 10-shot group, six shot of ten tipping.

Springfield '03 with worn bore was 6".

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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99 Strajght posted this 20 June 2013

I have been getting good results with the Lee 300 in my 30-06 with 17 gr. 4759. 10 shots in about 1 in. with maybe 1 or 2 fliers. WW and tin 40 to 1. BNH about 12. Gas check and 45-45-10 lub. About 1350 fps. Bullets seated to the lands.

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delmarskid1 posted this 21 June 2013

The long bullets do like to do the shimmy.

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onondaga posted this 21 June 2013

delmarskid1 wrote: The long bullets do like to do the shimmy. Ed and I are both getting the shimmy and that may be http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1575>99 Strajght's fliers too. I don't like the shimmy and think we all need faster twist bores to get rid of the shimmy for this long heavy bullet.

Does anybody know the actual twist of rifle barrels that are specifically made for long heavy 300 AAC bullets and shoot well with 220 + grain bullets. My Remington Spartan 7.62X39 twist is 1:10 and the barrel is 24 inches. it is not working for me with these bullets at low or sub-sonic velocity.

Gary

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tturner53 posted this 21 June 2013

If you have good groups and tipping you still have good groups.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 June 2013

I don't think you would need to shorten the bullet much to enhance stability for the 10” twist and to also enhance game performance. I'm thinking about sending mine to www.hollowpointmold.com to truncate the nose to 1/2 of bullet diameter with a 0.1"x30Ã‚Â° hollow point.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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onondaga posted this 21 June 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

I am crude enough to try dropping a .125-.200” polished ball bearing into each cavity before casting. Sometimes they stick there pretty good by themselves and I can get hemispherical cup nosed bullets from a spire mold like this one. Even if the ball bearing doesn't stick, they are fun to play with and you can get shorter bullets with a cup nose for expansion on game.

Mold block shortening and a re-flatting for a flat nose plate installed on the mold like a second sprue cutter but with no sprue holes would work to shorten bullets and make a flat nose.

Gary

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Ed Harris posted this 21 June 2013

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=207>Ed Harris:

I am crude enough to try dropping a .125-.200” polished ball bearing into each cavity before casting.....Even if the ball bearing doesn't stick, they are fun to play with.....

The ball bearing trick is easy and doesn't require any mods to the mold.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 June 2013

consider lathe cutting off a ” chunk ” of length on about 12 bullets per test length ... and for fun, maybe make a batch or 2 of rear-end trimmed also ...

a parting cut wont screw up the concentricity ...

use a very sharp cutter with lots of top rake

ken

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99 Strajght posted this 04 July 2013

I just got back from the range with good results. 10 shots into 7/8s of an inch. When I crimp on the gas check I use a .311 Lyman die with a 284 top punch and only size the gas check. It shortens the bullet from 1.390 with the gas check to 1.355 and gives it a rounder nose. Now I am going to try seating depths.

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onondaga posted this 05 July 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1575>99 Strajght

Your results are much better than I have been able to get and very encouraging for your velocity above sonic.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 12 May 2015

richidaho wrote: Gary,

Rich LRich, I was wondering if you're using a standard buffer and BCG as I'm in the process of working up a load for this bullet.

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onondaga posted this 12 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC Regarding Puff-Lon, The Puff-lon product has a loyal following of customers that I question. Puff-lon is Dietary fiber and a small percentage of dry lubricant.

You can make a duplicate yourself with pharmacy dietary fiber and about 1-3% powdered Mica or powdered Graphite. However all dietary plant fiber products do attract and hold moisture available from the atmosphere. The water effects a lot of variables in loaded ammunition you may be concerned with. The cost of Puff-Lon is also very high compared to making it yourself or using another product.

BPI Original ballistic filler is inert and does not attract or hold water. It is extremely light per volume and easily compressible 50%

Precision Reloading Spherical Buffer is also inert and does not attract or hold moisture. It is NOT readily compressible and is relatively heavy for a filler.

BPI is recommended by the maker as a ballistic filler for bottleneck and straight walled cartridges.

The PRPSB spherical filler will also work in bottleneck and straight walled cartridges but is about 2X the weight per volume of BPI. The spherical buffer also claims a barrel scrubbing benefit from shooting loads with PRPSB spherical buffer.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 12 May 2015

Gary, I followed your link from another thread in reference to the BPI and will order some. As for PuffLon I have one large and two small containers of the stuff. I might add I've really had good luck with it. If I knew I could drop this supressor in a cac of carberrator cleaner and leave over night, I would consider shooting uncoated, but I really don't want lube in my BCG. I drop breech plugs full of carbon into the cleaner and over night ( or when I get to it) they are clean as new! I need to call the manufacture and see about dip cleaning and such.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 May 2015

guess we need to stay up with technology ... brakes, cans ... what is a BCG ?

would a can need a hard alloy ? usually a sub-sonic load would use a pretty soft alloy .

ken

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gpidaho posted this 13 May 2015

Ken and friends: There has been a thought on my mind since I purchased the Lee TL309-230-5R. I have a 300 Blackout single shot, 1 in 7 twist and several 30cal rifles with 1 in 10 twists. One of these is the 7.62X39. My question is how do you think this bullet would perform if cast from Zamac or other high quality zinc alloy? This should put it at about 150grs. I'm aware of the extra temperature concerns and aluminum moulds and the fact that the sprue would most likely need to be removed by other means than the old “give it a whack". With the boat tail and extra length, also no need for lube do any of you see this working for a HV cast bullet. Thoughts? GP

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onondaga posted this 13 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

I think you will like the BPI Original you ordered. My bench includes a Lyman 55 Ideal Powder Measure, with the knocker. This classic measure handles BPI very well and I use it routinely when metering BPI Original filler.

The general safety rule with this filler is to add the weight of the filler you use to your bullet weight for a total projectile weight to use in any load planning.

Gary

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gpidaho posted this 15 May 2015

Well friends, I'm starting to warm up to this bullet (Lee 230) As Gary did I thought I'd give it a try in 7.62X39. Mine is a 15” T/C Encore. My mould drops small in the nose but it casts such a pretty bullet with printing spacer alloy that I'm just bumping them up in size using powder coat. In my Encore you can seat the bullet way out there! I'm using a COL of 2.635 this puts .300 into the case and keeps the gas check in the neck. I used Gary's load of 8gr TiteGroup and a WAG of mine 16.5 RL7. Shooting a five shot group at 50yrds. four went into 2” with one wide flyer. I think the flyer was most likely a poorly seated check, as Ed said there not easy to get on there just right. I had just tossed on a 3MOA red dot scope for plinking so no serious target work but clay pigeons were pretty much a gimmie at 50yrds. I'll mount up a real scope soon and see how that goes. I'm encouraged. Gary, my blackout Handi is a one in seven twist but so far I've seen no sign of the shimmie in my Encore. GP

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onondaga posted this 15 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=8045>gpidaho

Your 1:7 Twist is an excellent match to your long cast bullet in your caliber. It is such a good match that if you develop pitching and yawing bullets, it will not be because of the bearing area or bullet weight. Fit might get you.

I was hoping you wouldn't have to “bump up” with a coating, but instead, luck out with a mold/alloy that casts as large as mine does. I have to size mine down to .312” . They drop at .313-.314". Nose size has not been an issue or a concern for me either. They work.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 16 May 2015

Well, I cast about 50 or so bullets from my new Lee 300blk mold with what was in my furnace which I think was 20:1 lead/tin. These dropped around 230grs. After reading about the powder coat thing I tried it and sized to 309. The bore ride part of the bullet cast at 0.299” and the front driving band was 0.302". I used both LilGun and also IMR4227 and both cycled my AR-15 action at subsonic velocities but LilGun smoked up the case neck. I settled on 9.5grs of 4227 for 1100fps with my 16” 1/8 barrel. My problem was that at 100yds I found that the bullets were cutting egg shaped holes and wouldn't group but about nine inches. I emptied my furnace and then filled with lyman#2 and cast more bullets again powder coating but this time sizing 0.311". If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I don't think I would have believed it! After a fouling shot that went right where I was aiming, I shot 8 rounds at 100yds, 7 inside 1” with one flier opening the group to 2". So tomorrow I'm going to try it again! After some 40 some years of casting and shooting cast bullets I reluctantly tried the powder coat believing it would throw my bullets so off balance I would be wasting my time. I really shouldn't have tried a new allow and also size differently as I don't know what caused the big change. May have been a combination of the two, but I think the harder alloy allowed a more stable spin out the barrel. I do think the 8 twist for this bullet is at the limit for this length bullet.

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JDNC posted this 16 May 2015

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote: guess we need to stay up with technology ... brakes, cans ... what is a BCG ?

would a can need a hard alloy ? usually a sub-sonic load would use a pretty soft alloy .

ken
BCG=Bolt Carrier Group I thought the same thing about the soft alloy but I was wrong. My rifle likes lyman #2.

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JDNC posted this 16 May 2015

JDNC wrote: Well, I cast about 50 or so bullets from my new Lee 300blk mold with what was in my furnace which I think was 20:1 lead/tin. These dropped around 230grs. After reading about the powder coat thing I tried it and sized to 309. The bore ride part of the bullet cast at 0.299” and the front driving band was 0.302". I used both LilGun and also IMR4227 and both cycled my AR-15 action at subsonic velocities but LilGun smoked up the case neck. I settled on 9.5grs of 4227 for 1100fps with my 16” 1/8 barrel. My problem was that at 100yds I found that the bullets were cutting egg shaped holes and wouldn't group but about nine inches. I emptied my furnace and then filled with lyman#2 and cast more bullets again powder coating but this time sizing 0.311". If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I don't think I would have believed it! After a fouling shot that went right where I was aiming, I shot 8 rounds at 100yds, 7 inside 1” with one flier opening the group to 2". So tomorrow I'm going to try it again! After some 40 some years of casting and shooting cast bullets I reluctantly tried the powder coat believing it would throw my bullets so off balance I would be wasting my time. I really shouldn't have tried a new allow and also size differently as I don't know what caused the big change. May have been a combination of the two, but I think the harder alloy allowed a more stable spin out the barrel. I do think the 8 twist for this bullet is at the limit for this length bullet.Well, today I found what I suspected. I could not duplicate the tight groups of yesterday but they did stay around 3” or so. But I don't think this 8 twist barrel will stabilize heavy bullets at subsonic velocities. I kept seeing egg shaped holes in the targets. Hopefully to prove myself wrong I switched to Sierra 180 gr SPFB and they also sometimes left a trace of egg shaped holes. I shot loads from 1000-1100 fps. I have a 7 twist barrel so I think I'll change it out. If a 8 twist will stabilize these heavier long bullets maybe my barrel was stamped wrong:D

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badammo posted this 22 May 2015

I have been trying different loads for the Lee in my 300 AAC. So far its been poor. The 160 Lyman SIL with GC is doing about 3” groups so far. I polished the bore when barrel was new using Gary's method. It worked so well I have polished several other barrels. I shot some 110 gr V-max for reference And was getting 1” groups with red dot sight on AR.

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JDNC posted this 28 May 2015

As for an update, due to the AR platform Ive been looking for a powder that will fill the case more and still burn fairly clean. After crunching numbers with QuickLoad I decided to try IMR4198. With a COAL=2.090” due to mag feeding, a 9.5gr charge leaves very little space. This load clocked at 1040fps with ES=21, SD=8. But again I find egg shaped holes in the target, but groups about 2.5” at 100 yds. If I bump up the velocity around 1100fps the bullet is stablizied and groups sometimes under 2". I feel that this bullet is on the edge of not being stabilized under 1100 fps using a 1/8 barrel. I'm really considering changing to a 1/7 as I plan on using this bullet subsonic. It wants to shoot so bad, but just can't in my 1/8 twist barrel.

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onondaga posted this 28 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

I hope you do well but changing from a 1:8 to a 1:7 twist is a tiny difference that may not show on paper at all. The .311 sizing helped significantly for you. .3115 might take you to 1” groups if that bullet size will function. I would hone out a Lee bullet sizing die to size bullets .3115” and try. That makes a lot more sense than a new barrel with only a 1” twist difference.

Honing the bullet nose area of the mold to fit your G to G isn't hard either if you have experience. Lee aluminum molds modify easily.

Either of these modifications makes more sense to me than changing to a barrel with only a 1” twist difference.

Out of round holes on paper is also highly dramatized, group size is what counts regardless of bullet hole shape.

My twist is slower than yours and I get the Lee AAC bullet to fly just fine. My rifle is a single shot 7.62X39 with a 1:10 twist 24” chrome lined barrel and consistently groups under 1” at 50 yards and 2.1” at 100. My holes on paper are round at 1160 fps with H TiteGroup.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 30 May 2015

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

Honing the bullet nose area of the mold to fit your G to G isn't hard either if you have experience. Lee aluminum molds modify easily.

Either of these modifications makes more sense to me than changing to a barrel with only a 1” twist difference.

Out of round holes on paper is also highly dramatized, group size is what counts regardless of bullet hole shape.

GaryWell, changing barrels is not that much of a deal as I don't need to do any machine work on an AR (and I have the barrel on hand). As for the mold, I've considered lathe boring the base but for only 25 bucks or so I might order another mold as it takes time to set up for boring. I might order a mold from Accurate Molds and try something different anyway. I'm glad you are having good luck with this bullet. I'm not giving up, just scratching my head some. I might add AAC has recently changed their barrels to 1/7. I wonder if they have found the 8 pitch to slow for some of the heavy's. I love tinkering though, if everything shot well...what would we do?

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onondaga posted this 30 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

Honestly, the twist is not near as important with cast bullets as it is with jacketed bullets and your twist is much closer to perfect than mine.

I didn't mean using a lathe to open up your mold. Search honing Lee molds, it is a simple procedure using a cast bullet with a nut sitting on the mold top while casting to make a mold honing plug. I use pumice and dish-soap for an abrasive and turn the plug with a wrench. There are specific water cleaning steps but nothing difficult. I have done it more than several times and posted on it myself.

Where you may also notice a big accuracy difference is between using and not using a gas check. One way will shoot better but either is sufficient for a pressure matched alloy for the load you shoot. My rifle shoots better subsonic through moderate velocities with gas check installed when sizing.

Mine:

Gary

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JDNC posted this 05 June 2015

Gary, I'm in agreement with trying the gas checks. I really think I'm taking too many short cuts and I know better. I think I'll chamber cast (or tamp lead) to see what the throat diameter and groove really is. If need be I'll hone the mold as you advise ( great idea btw). I do think I'll try the GC's as that might cure the yawing. In my experience, a bullet will not give the best accuracy if it's yawing. I've read that a GC will give a bullet a better grip in the bore reference spin but I don't know. Worth trying though. The main reason I haven't used GC's is that I saw a couple stuck in my sky screen several years ago (so I know they will come off sometimes). As I might use this bullet powder coated in a suppressor later on I have reservations on its use with a GC. For that matter, I don't really know if powder coat residue will cause a problem, but I don't want even one GC strike a baffle. I can swage copper jacketed, or even buy them, but when I saw some were using powder coated cast I thought I would give it a try. BTW, for anyone interested, the GC's that I found imbedded in my start screen were seated using a push through Lee sizing die at the time. These were 30 cal 170 gr. LBT bullets. I never experienced this when sizing with a lubesizer. I don't have a clue as the difference! JD

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onondaga posted this 05 June 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

I had gas checks flying off too. I solved that problem with a specific method for the caliber 7.62X39. I stopped using 30 caliber gas checks and got some 31 caliber aluminum gas checks from sageoutdoors.com. My picture up the page shows 30 cal gas checks, but I have since changed to 31 cal gas checks and they don't fly off because they start out at a diameter larger than the bullet sizing die. The smaller 30 cal checks aren't big enough to be sized and they don't get crimped well on 7.62X39 bullets, so they fly off.

Here is the exact checks I use, they are made for .303 Brit and they don't fly off my 7.62X39 bullets sized/checked at .312 and .3125":

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/22-to-38-caliber-gas-checks/10-303-caliber-gas-checks.html>http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/22-to-38-caliber-gas-checks/10-303-caliber-gas-checks.html

This was a good solution for me, the 30 cal checks fly off and the 31 cal checks don't fly off for me.

I suggest you get a small quantity of the Sage's checks and try them. You can try 100 of them for $4.99 from Sages to see how they will work for you. If you are size/checking at .310” or more as I am, the Sage's 31 cal checks will fit and crimp better than 30 cal.

Pound casting or chamber casting will give you an accurate throat dimension. I generally do that every rifle and then hone bullet molds and bullet sizing dies to get sliding throat fit for sized/checked bullets. It is not easy, but is routine for me to get a baseline in bullet fit for accuracy.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 06 June 2015

Gary,Thanks for the GC info. I only have Hornady and Lyman 30 cal. I can't remember which checks I had that flew off. Yeah, in reference to chamber casting I know better. Guess I'm getting lazy in my old age. There is really no short cuts as mine always turns into extra work. BTW..are you sizing with a Push through die or lubesizer? JD

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JDNC posted this 06 June 2015

Gary, I just ordered 100 of the GC's.

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onondaga posted this 06 June 2015

I use the Lee Lube and Size kits with push through bullet sizing dies exclusively and don't hesitate to custom hone them. They can be ordered in custom sizes but I find it easy to hone them. I started using the Lee kits as soon as they became available decades ago and never went back to traditional bullet sizing and pressure lube.

The Lee stuff and 45:45:10 tumble lube has been consistently successful for me and at this point in our hobby, going back to a traditional lubrisizer and pressure lube would be going back across the line of innovation to the obsolete. I never did as well with the old as I do with the new.

Gary

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JDNC posted this 06 June 2015

Gary,Pretty much same here. I was just wondering if you were using Lee type sizer when your GC's were coming off. I was, and couldn't figure out why the check would be loose with the Lee die and not with the lubesizer. I never used or had that much luck with the tumble lube and wish Lee would give an option as to order with or without. I've got several bottles I'll give you if you want to PM me your address. Not that it doesn't work but I found other lubes I like better. I do use it to coat some tools for storage though, also works great for that! I'm going to exhaust all options before changing the barrel but as for twist rates, I think an inch of twist in the fast rate end (7 to 9) would be a greater percentage in RPM than the slower rates like 12 to 14. Also at subsonic velocities it might make the difference in stabilizing or not (in my rifle). I know you are getting good results though. I know they're a lot of twist calculators out there that say 1:8 will do for this length bullet but I plugged the dimensions in a cast bullet design program and it shows at 1050 fps 1:8 is on the threshold of not being fast enough. But the real deal is the target and changing out the barrel is way down my list, I'll tell you that! PS If I figure out how to paragraph I will!

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onondaga posted this 06 June 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

Sure, I was using Lee bullet sizing dies when I had checks flying off. Fortunately I used measuring and simple logic to figure out the problem. I changed to 31 cal checks when I noticed a particular measurement discrepancy with the checked bullets with 30 caliber checks that were having checks flying off in the air. Some of them struck my chronograph too.

I measured the sized/checked bullets with 30 caliber checks at the diameter of the gas check on the bullet. Then I measured the diameter of the bullet at the driving bands. The driving bands measured bigger than the check diameter by over .001". That means the checks weren't big enough to be sized or crimped by the Lee bullet sizing die at .312". They were just being pushed on and weren't big enough to be actually sized and crimped to the bullet.

The problem disappeared with 31 caliber checks. The 31 caliber checks were big enough by .002-.003” to be sized and crimped to the bullets by the die and when when I measured the check and bullet driving bands after sizing there was no difference. The bullet and check were sized to the same diameter from the bullet sizing die and the crimp was secure.

The problem with the 30 caliber checks being smaller than the bullet sizing size was eliminated and the 31 caliber checks sized and crimped nicely to my 300AAC bullets at .312” for my 7.62X39 single shot Remington Spartan rifle. I had a group size decrease with the 31 caliber checks and no more flying gas checks denting my chronograph.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 06 June 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=885>JDNC

Keep your Lee Liquid Alox, I have plenty of 45:45:10 tumble lube that dries clear and tack free under 5 minutes when I warm the bullets and lube. Thank you anyway!

You can mix your own Bud's formula that dries clear and tack free with 60% Lee LLA and 40% Johnson's “ONE STEP” Just mix and use. Look for the Johnson's One Step at hardware stores or on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/JOHNSON-00125-Johnson-Wood-22-Ounce/dp/B000F5K3U2/ref=sr_1_3?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1433609722&sr=1-3&keywords=johnson%27s+floor+wax>http://www.amazon.com/JOHNSON-00125-Johnson-Wood-22-Ounce/dp/B000F5K3U2/ref=sr13?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1433609722&sr=1-3&keywords=johnson%27s+floor+wax

New users of this Bud's formula are raving about it's quick drying and non tackiness and calling it an improvement over the 45:45:10 that I use.