9mm-Why bother?

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Last Post 07 June 2013

CBA Member

tturner53 posted this 15 February 2011

I ask myself this from time to time. My efforts haven't been that successful, it takes a lot of time, and cheap blasting ammo is plentiful. I prefer factory for serious considerations with a 9mm. But still I am compelled to try. Must just be the casters curse;"I just know if I keep trying I'll find the magic combo...". And then there's the chasing of the brass. Why bother? Is it like the mountain, 'because it's there..'? Maybe it's all that free brass.

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RicinYakima posted this 15 February 2011

Tim,

The other question is “Why not?".

Ric

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4060may posted this 15 February 2011

TT If you shoot at an indoor range, start picking up all the alum cased 9mm..it is re loadable..once for sure up to 3 times with 45acp..and because there is so much of it...just leave it when you shoot it..the rimmed stuff seems to have berdan style holes in the brass..HTH

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corerf posted this 15 February 2011

I must reload 9mm. This is the only way for me to get the insane accuracy that I get. I am shooting drills with 1 inch paste ons at 50 feet . Factory ammo won't be consistent enough. It's worth your labor. Unless your going to shoot at 7 yrds and that's it. My 2 cents.

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JetMech posted this 20 February 2011

corerf wrote: Unless your going to shoot at 7 yrds and that's it. My 2 cents. That got me laughing! I had never seen a 7 yd range until the TWRA range opened and I took my daughter there (the pistol range) to shoot 22RF at 25yds. I had Ashley shoot my 44 Special at 7 yds to start out. 12 rounds later, all in the black and I moved her out to the 15 yd line.

I don't shoot 9mm, but if I did, it would have to be at least a 6 cavity mould. Can't imagine casting 2 at a time.

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corerf posted this 20 February 2011

If you watch any shooting on TV, or go to the indoor ranges at all, those BIG sillouettes that folks shoot at are always at 7 yrds. The groups seems to be about 7 yrds as well. It's fun to watch. I suppose if your only shooting interest is self defense in your home, that is all that is needed. But a bit further out might be “fun” to shoot at too. I don't cast for the 9mm YET, although I have accumulated plenty o molds to do so. I seem to score more often than necessary, boxes of cast bullets to load up. Last score was 4500 pieces, after a small sale, they became free..... same with about 2500 230gr LRN for 45. Thats quite a bit of shooting. I do believe that with the onslaught of economics and legal issues, that I may preserve my “material” for bullets a bit more esoteric and just continue to procure or buy the 9mm and 45's. But they will be cast and I will rarely buy factory, if at all (pers. def).

45 Super will have to be my homebrew 185gr's and the GOOD bullets will be my 122 gr Lymans for the 9mm. When one hole performance is required!

Plus I just like to reload, makes me feel like I pet my labs for an hour. Happy inside.

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hunterspistol posted this 20 February 2011

I bother with it for a few reasons. I want lead to keep the barrel of the TC Contender (it says “Custom Shop” on the side). A 9mm is just a European 38 special. When I was in high school, they announced the 'all new and wonderful 9mm Parabellum' and that started it. They re-named it for trajectory, mainly for advertising and marketing.

I can buy tons of factory to run through my guns, all jacketed, all guaranteed to screech down the barrel, all guaranteed to wear out the gun. Accuracy is great, even the Winchester range ammo shoots exactly where you put it. Then there's the Personal Defense hollowpoints, that's my favorite reserve in the automatic.

Why bother? It's a little like the 22 Hornet, it's so tiny that it's easy to pop out several hundred. It conserves lead and powder. It's lets you play with hollowpoints, flatpoints and targets. Who doesn't want another 500 rounds?

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LeÃƒÂ³n posted this 23 February 2011

My magic combo is 152 grains of lead in various profiles at 900 fps. Sweet for me and my sweetie.

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tturner53 posted this 24 February 2011

I'm not saying I'm giving up on cbs in the 9mm, just frustrated. I don't know how to give up. Like my M95 8x56R I try cast in it because it's there. I'm considering a change of mindset regarding the 9mm. Instead of the high volume (and high pressure) combat weapon I've always seen it as, my new approach will be low volume precision bullseye gun.My friend Duane sent me several pounds of bullets ready to load to try out. The quest continues, with a new perspective. And the heck with chasing the brass.I'll save the brass farming for my .41 AE.

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corerf posted this 24 February 2011

TT,

I have found the 9mm can be very accurate, especially when loaded down a bit. With what I have been shooting, if you work the cases like a precision rifle, they will do exactly like the precision rifle.

I am an odd duck, to actually trim 9mm cases within .0005, but it makes a heck of a diff. in performance. Sort cases like you should, etc. Clean the primer pockets. Treat the crappy case like it is gold. Then it becomes a shooter (usually). I have been pumping out lots of 9mm for range time and stopped prepping cases. I'd sort, but no trim, etc. Wholly Toledo, the odd balls are flying all over the place. I just shot tonight with some 4.7 gr BE under 122gr FN's. I'd get a run of an inch group at 33 feet, then blamo, 3-4 that are four inch high or two low. I didn't pull those shots. Wish I could chrono indoors. During the load workup, I treated the cases like fine china and for that I got specs and performance you wouldn't believe if I told you. Then the progressive press pumped them out and they do NOT meet the original performance standards. I can make rounds that perform or I can go high volume with minimal performance (similar to factory WWB stuff)

And so your low volume bullseye attack is a good one. I believe the little round will offer you much if you treat it right and load it like you care about each one. I like to shoot but not like a defensive pistol comp shooter. 50-100 rounds of 9mm and I am more than done. Give me something different to do. When shooting bullseye, every shot counts. A torso target, not so much.

TT, go for the little targets! They are more fun anyway and you'll spend less money downrange at the same time.

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Vassal posted this 24 February 2011

I Should probably be careful with my comments Because I have not resolved my issue,,, But I do feel it neccesary to remind my fellow CBA members - Range brass can be dangerous. I have never had a problem, BUT I HAVE RECENTLY HAD BAD BRASS FROM FACTORY CARTRIDGES. I mean to say that I bought some new, factory ammo in 10mm, After my NEW GLOCK Ka-Boomed in my hand I looked at the cases. although the primers nor the outside of the cases had shown any signs of high pressure many or most had cracks around the web INSIDE the case! This is after ONE firing of the factory load; A load which was pushing a 180gr jacketed bullet at ONLY 800FPS! Thats not even a stout load for 40SW! much less 10mm! If I was a different shooter I might have left those laying on the ground.

We know factory glock barrels in larger calibers have had trouble and they have STILL only partially fixed the issue - it could be dangerous in ANY caliber.

I am waiting for my gun back from Glock and hoping they don't stick me with the bill; We'll see. But I definitely want to send out a reminder to others about what can happen when we don't check our components well enough. Even the factory!

I load 9mm with Devestators and love it!

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tturner53 posted this 24 February 2011

Vassal, sounds like you avoided injury, that's good. Who made the ammo? Reloads? With what sounds like defective cases I wonder if Glock will warranty that barrel, hope so. The FBI packs the Glock .40s, must mean something. I know a couple feds that pack them, they love 'em. One's a SWAT team leader and beats heck out of his guns. You never hear much about cbs in the .40. As for my 9mm effort, I have three bullets that are still candidates, the ones from Duane, which I think are a lot like what Coref is shooting, a Lee custom pb spire point type 130, and some Lyman Devastator HPs also sent to me by a friend here. As suggested test loads will emphasize Bullseye, but I also have a lot of IMR 4756 to burn and several other fast numbers. I read somewhere that it's hard to make a W231 load lead the barrel so may make up a sample of those. In the meantime I have postal matches and local matches to load for so it'll take me a little time to perfect the 9mm program, but I have hope again. I'll call it my 'hopey/changey' 9mm program. I'm changing my approach and hoping it works! Nice tight groups on a bullseye are fun. Thanks for the help and encouragement fellas.

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Vassal posted this 24 February 2011

Yes, there was no injury. Glock hasn't asked alot of questions so far, I guess we'll see. Ironically I never liked thos plastic 2x4s but I wanted a 10mm and alll the other options were limited to low capacity mags. Should have gotten a Colt anyway. LIVE AND LEARN. my new mantra - “just quit whining and buy a Colt"

I shoot 9mm in my hi-point carbine. It has a cheap 4x on top and it is pretty accurate; TOTALLY relaible also. I haven't shot it much lately but it gets 2"-3” @ 100yd rested. During my testing I found no powder better than W Auto-Comp for Jacketed and 4756 for lead. I use a Lee 125FP as well as the Devestator with the 4756. mild loads for best accuracy with lead. I don't think I ever got around to shooting groups with the HPs but the Lee FP posted MANY groups that size. For a pitol-caliber carbine which costs less than a trip to an amusement park that is AWESOME!

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giorgio de galleani posted this 25 February 2011

I shoot my Browning HP 9x21,9 luger is not allowed in Italy,with cast bullets for the following reasons:

I cannot shoot a 911 ,45 or 38superuto one handed for a disability.(hope to regain strength soon , and be able to shoot the 9x21 in a 38superauto chamber)

I collect lots,great quantity of 9x21from my gun club for free.

I can afford to abandon 150 hulls at a steel challenge match.

I have a six cavity Lee TL 356-i24TC mold.

I siz'em 357,put a charge that barely cycles the action and have at it ,most cheap.

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galenaholic posted this 26 February 2011

Giorgio, my experience is with the 9MM Parabellum but 9x21 is still a 9mm. I noted that you sized your bullet to .357". Just a suggestion if you haven't tried this, Size your bullets to .358 if you gun will allow it. I'm deadly serious about this. I have three 9x19's and they didn't shoot worth a darn until I got some bullets as part of a deal when I bought a used Dillon 550B press. I loaded a few getting he pess set up and took them to the range. Six inch groups dropped down to 2 inch groups from three different handguns. What was different from my bullets. Weight was right on. Lube groove totally full. Then, I checked the sized diameter of the bullets, .358". :shock: I ran a batch of my bullets and sized them to .358 inch and WOW! 1.5 to 2.0 inches depending on how carefully I shot.

So, size a bullet to .358 inch and make up a dummy round. If it chmbers freely in your gun, load up enough to shoot a magazine full ot two and see if it makes a difference.

Paul B.

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hunterspistol posted this 26 February 2011

:coffee I've decided to change my approach. Frustrating, it might be if I weren't so given to patient experimentation. The Devastator gave me acceptable (just barely) accuracy in the S&W 5906. Because it shoots differently I have two completely seperate load applications between it and the Contender. The Contender is new and tight, shoots any 9X19 perfect.

The Smith and Wesson, on the other hand, runs a slower twist and requires more powder to push the bullet. I'm thinking I need to size it up also, .357 sizing die. I'm resizing the bullet and changing the powder. First intriguing little thing was learning about the case mouth fit, a certain amount of bell, a certain amount of crimp, done exactly right. The dies I use are a TC set from RCBS that include Giorgio's 9X21 and the Steyr. That's another application where the TC silhouette guns have excelled.

Sure, sometimes, if something isn't exactly right, it will shoot really wild. But, then again, any gun I have can do that. That's not unusual, it's just a fact. When it all comes together for that solid gold moment on the range, my world is complete and I have a good load. Why bother? Because nobody else will!

Keep your chin up, Tim!

I'm working on changing bullet style too, Lyman #358477

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Vassal posted this 26 February 2011

Its good to hear from Giorgio! When I heard about the Burlesconi scandal I wondered what he/you thought. Hope you get your strength back soon

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joeb33050 posted this 26 February 2011

I just looked and Natchez is selling 9mm Blazer or Blazer brass for $9.99/50 = ~$.20 = 20 cents per.

It appears that cast lead bullets are available for ~ $40 per 500 = $.08= 8 cents.

Primers are ~ $25-$30 per 1000 = 2 1/2-3 cents each.

The reason I'm interested in knowing how long it takes to cast and process lead bullets is so that the shooter knows how long it takes to make 1 cast bullet vs. buying that bullet. Or buying that cartridge vs. loading it.

If making the bullet takes .01 hour = 100 bullets per hour complete, and buying that bullet costs 8 cents, the caster is working for $8 per hour. Then there's the lead and lube.

I suspect that the bought bullets and blazer ammunition mean that the reloader/caster is working for not much $$.

For me, I would buy autoload or revolver bullets, but I'm not sure about the time and $ trade off. I cast rifle bullets because it's all about accuracy for me.

We would be better off knowing the time-to-make bullets, because the $ per hour the caster/reloader is making is implicit in the data we know now.

joe b.

tturner53 wrote: I ask myself this from time to time. My efforts haven't been that successful, it takes a lot of time, and cheap blasting ammo is plentiful. I prefer factory for serious considerations with a 9mm. But still I am compelled to try. Must just be the casters curse;"I just know if I keep trying I'll find the magic combo...". And then there's the chasing of the brass. Why bother? Is it like the mountain, 'because it's there..'? Maybe it's all that free brass.

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galenaholic posted this 26 February 2011

Joe. You make some interesting points. In my case, no pun intedned, I prefer to cast my own bullets regardless if they're for handgun or rifle. I'm retired and my income is fixed, but time I have plenty of. Even if that were not the situation I like to experiment with different alloys, sizing lubes etc. Can't really do that with store bought cast bullets. I guess it all boils down to what we like to do.

Paul B.

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corerf posted this 26 February 2011

You could cut the data down to this:

It takes way too long to cast handgun bullets if dollars are the worry. Completely not worth it. I can did garbage out of a trashcan, sell it faster and pay for bullets OTC. All cheaper than I can cast 9mm. But then again, there's shipping, trial and error shooting with a number of 500 count bullet boxes, the problem that nobody casts commercially with a 357 or 358 diameter for 9mm. Shipping costs are rising.....

Casters of 9mm, I believe, don't do it for money sake. I believe it is done to get j bullet performance for commercial cast bullet costs. That is why I do it. I get accuracy exceeding xtp's with home cast and better than factory with commercial cast. And I spnd less funds than a ball ammo shooter. Accuracy plus slightly less out of pocket in any regard. I eat the time and loose money in that regard.