When shooting cast with the 38 special cartridge will the accuracy be greater in a pistol chambered for the 38 special or the 357 mag? Does the mag chamber reduce the accuracy of the special ? The reason I ask is because I have a hankerin' for a cowboy gun and like the 38 special loads but if the 357 chamber is detrimental to the accuracy of the special then I will just have to pay more and get a pistol chambered expressly for the special instead of the easier to find 357 mag. I have no interest in the mag cartridge, I am way more interested in the decreased recoil of the special. I know you can download the 357 to 38 velocity but that leaves too much annular space in the case. I prefer a case at least 60% full and more if possible. Regards...g
38 special revolvers with cast
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- Last Post 18 October 2015
Since I have “old eyes” I find the rear sight notch is the deciding factor on accuracy.
I think the debate on 38 cases vs. 357 would be limited to only target shooters.
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Might as well start with the most accurate combination, right?
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FWIW,
I shot one season of ISU International Duel competition with a 6” Colt Python in the mid-1970's. The best load was a 38 Special 148 grain wadcutter loaded in 357 cases. The powder charge was 2.7 / 3.0 grains of Bullseye. What is different was that the bullet was seated down into the case about 3/8 inch below the case mouth, no crimp.
Now you are on your own for pressure data, as internal volume is quite small and pressures are higher than normal loading procedures. But when tested with a Ramson Rest, it would hold the 1.4 inch oval shaped center ring at 50 meters. With 38 Special cases, there would be “nickers” on the edges.
So does the 38 cases reduce accuracy when fired in 357 chambers? Yes. But how many 1/16's of an inch do you want to reduce the group at your longest distance?
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If you can tell the difference you are a better shot than I am.
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i have shot both but always went back to 38 cases as 357 cases were harder to find. i never could tell the difference as i am not good enough to know. Run some tests and let us know. I would think it would take at least 25 groups with each to take the human element out of it and know if it makes a difference. joe gifford aka argie1891
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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Fellas, I don't fancy my ability with a handgun to any great degree but it has always been my habit both with a pistol or a rifle to first seek the most accurate combination and then shoot it to the best of my ability. I am sure there are times I go “over the edge" in my preparations but when I go to the line I am certain that I have the edge in accuracy if not ability. You only have to do the accuracy work once, then it just becomes repitition. When I prepare a pistol it is with a scope over solid bags and if it is windy enough for windflags, well, that's a good day to just drink whiskey.:P
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times you go over the edge, okayyyyyyyyyyyy,lol dunno what ya are after or what you are wanting to play. those SASS fellows throw a lot of lead pretty fast. actaully I think who ever can unload all their guns the fastest wins, then ya only need to hit a few targets. knowing you, you would look good with bisley in 38, ivory grips of course. Speaking of whiskey tried a new one on me the other day. buffalo trace, ain't bad, first taste is sweetish and oak , finish is some what sweet and no it has no buffalo after taste nor have I awaken in a cold sweat in a buffalo stamped. iwill give a holler next year some time. jeff
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Hey Guys, I just worked the load up and got help testing in the Ramson Rest. My shooting partner could tell the difference, as he would average about one (1) point less with 38 brass. My shooting buddy, coach and mentor was Martin Buehler. He is an NRA distinguished pistol shot, 15 time Presidents 100, all Navy and Marine Corps champion, US 1980 Olympic team member. He also is the one who told me to forget pistol shooting and take up golf, as you will remember from some of my older posts on pistol shooting.
Ric
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Nice to hear from you again Jeff. Actually I am just getting a bit tired of the benchrest and the long range rifle and would like to do a bit of pistol shooting. Picked up a custom pin gun made from a S&W 10 that shoots well with the 158 swc and would like to try to tighten it up a bit with the 148wc. Who knows, maybe I will try the field pistol IHMSA events with a standing revolver and shoot off hand. Should raise a few eyebrows at least. I am sure the troops will think I have slipped a cog. In your experience with cast are the 100 meter rams in fp doable with the 148 wc and 3 gns of B'eye? Dunno if the pistol is capable of that accuracy at distance but I will sure enjoy giving it a try...........Regards...g
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I would go with the 358311 if at all possible. The wc and swc just won't fly as well much past50.
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Since I don't cast I must go with a commercially available bullet. Do you have a recommendation in that area?
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times you go over the edge, okayyyyyyyyyyyy,lol
dunno what ya are after or what you are wanting to play. those SASS fellows throw a lot of lead pretty fast. actaully I think who ever can unload all their guns the fastest wins, then ya only need to hit a few targets.
knowing you, you would look good with bisley in 38, ivory grips of course.
Speaking of whiskey tried a new one on me the other day.
buffalo trace, ain't bad, first taste is sweetish and oak , finish is some what sweet
and no it has no buffalo after taste nor have I awaken in a cold sweat in a buffalo stamped.
iwill give a holler next year some time.
jeff
Buffalo Trace is some pretty good stuff. It's distilled about an hour from my house (well, so is every major bourbon). If you want a nice bourbon to try, go buy a bottle of Bulleit Bourbon (not a spelling mistake, but still pronounced “bullet"). Good stuff.
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G I will look around some and see who has what. The full wadcutters wanted to tumble on me. A semi wadcutter shot a bit better. The roundnose was better yet. Look a Missouri bullet company, when you get a chance. They were as cheap as i have seen. i have not shot any of them but some around here have had good luck with them. They can be a bit slow in shipping as they are a small outfit. I heard through the grape vine they were making up a big order for Graff's? If so I would guess they may just go to all whole sale, or their prices will go up............. amb1935 Dunno why I even bought a bottle of bourbon. I have a gallon of corn juice from kentucky. Clear as air. I get a couple of gallons a year. This last batch is not near as good as some of the others. I have had the Bulliet before. Not bad for the price. I really like the Booker, but dang that stuff is pricey! I just finished a bottle of Gentleman Jack Special single barrel that I had been holding back for a few years. Knob Creek is another one I like. Though it seems like it can vary from time to time? Wild Turkey Rare Bird I think is an excellent one for the $. jeff
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One of the most accurate revolvers I have is a pre WWII S&W 357 Magnum which was used exclusively for bullseye pistol matches until I purchased it in the 1970's. I have only shot it with cast lead 38 Special loads and have not experienced any problems. I do clean the chambers with an oversize bronze brush and Hoppes#9 after each range session.
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HAmmer - Remember that you likely won't achieve a high load density with a 38 case either. With fast powders (hp38/W231)and Magnum primers it doesn't matter. BE careful.
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Get you 357 mag peacemakers,The Pietta are made with the best and strongest steels,while the blackpowder caliber guns are proportioned to their lower pressures(38sp,45lc,44WCF et coetera).
You shall double charge a 38 sp case.Murphy's Law.
The quest for extreme accuracy in a 1873 pistol is meaningless.
All the most accurate 38sp wadcutter targetloads are loaded with a minuscule charge of under thre grains of bullseye.
Cowboy action shooting is different from 1000 yards benchrest.
Get a chronograph,a progressive loading machine and shoot at least 15000 rounds of ammo.
Use whatever brass you can get for free.
After that you too will have the right to have your opinions,even to disagree with me.
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gdg, the man has more than likley spilled more powder than a lot of folks will ever burn. I say that in truth and not to be a smart aleck. If I could shoot as good as he does on his poor days, I would be a happy camper. He is some what shy in what he has achieved in his shooting ability. Now if he reads this his head will swell up two hat sizes,lol. Honestly he has helped my a BUNCH in getting my standing scores up where they can be.
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Alas,my belly is swelling,my ego is immense already.
And I know the recipe to loose weight,I should eat a little less and spende a couple of hours a day on my mountain bike.Not uphill,just pedal at 70 rpm in the plain.
But the weather is too hot ,now.In the spring it rained most every day ,and I hate the indoor cyclette.
When I want some accuracy,at 25 feet Pins ,I use this Mod 27,and I have never been able to see the difference between 38 and 357 brass.
I can just tell the difference between good bullets and very bad bullets in the accuracy departement.
And in rifle offhand &practice almost anything will do,in bench rest shooting,only the best brass and bullets will be ok.
The secret ,in my not humble opinion ,is in practicing a lot,and perfect practice makes perfect scores.
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A number of years ago (well, a LOT of years ago:() I had occasion to run a number of my local club members .357's over a Ransom Rest using both .38 Wadcutters (including some fine factory match ammo) and .357 cased target loads. Most revolvers shot as well with .38 Special cases as .357 Magnum cases.
However, occasionally a revolver would be found that did noticeably better with .357 Magnum cases (NEVER the other way around).
The real answer is to try YOUR revolver and act accordingly.
I have a number of .357's and they all do quite well with .38 Special cased W/C loads at target velocity.:^:
YMMV Dale53
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Skeeter Skelton promoted a +P+ load using .38 brass and 2400 in a .357 revolver only. I'm going to try it since I have many thousands of .38 cases and only hundreds of .357. I know that doesn't directly address the accuracy question but if it was good enough for Skeeter it's worth a try.
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