30-30 pistol powder

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jimkim posted this 10 July 2008

  I have now loaded my 30-30 with unique,blue dot,red dot and 2400. I want more loads using pistol powder. I would like some using 700x,800x or PB. Bullet weights would be 100-180 gr cast lead OR jacketed. If you have some please share them. I have the Trail Boss data already. Thank you so much.Jim

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Ed Harris posted this 11 July 2008

jimkim wrote: I have now loaded my 30-30 with unique,blue dot,red dot and 2400. I want more loads using pistol powder. I would like some using 700x,800x or PB. Bullet weights would be 100-180 gr cast lead OR jacketed. If you have some please share them.  In the .30-30 using fast burning pistol or shotshell powders such as Bullseye, 700-X or Red Dot start at 4 grains with cast bullets lighter than 130 grs. and use 5 grains as a starting load for heavier cast bullets or any jacketed ones from 110-170 grs.  Fast powders have a narrow safe working range and do not recommend exceeding about 6 grains of these in the .30-30 with any bullet.

With somewhat slower pistol and shotshell powders such as 231, 7625, Unique, or PB you can start at 5 grs. with lead or 6 grs. with jacketed, but you should stop at 7 grs. with 231 or 7625; and at 8 grs. with Unique or PB.

I don't have personal experience using Blue Dot or 800X in the .30-30, but either  should work with charges in the range of 8-10 grs. with most cast bullets.

2400 is one of the best powders for cast in the .30-30.  Starting charge for plainbased bullets is 10 grs. up to 13 grs. maximum without a GC.  Using GC bullets or jacketed ones work in the range of 13 to 16 grs.  Do not exceed 16 grs. of #2400 as that is a full charge load with a 170-gr. bullet in the .30-30 with this powder. 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

Thanks Ed. These are the Blue Dot loads. They came from THR forum. I've been using 13gr of bluedot under a Speer 150 gr FN. I started at Eight gr and worked my way up. I took it to 15 but my rifle likes 13 better. If you see anything wrong here please let me know.

Blue Dot Range Report: 30/30 Winchester

Case: Remington

Primer: Fed 210

Bullets: Winchester 110 gr RN, Hornady 170 grain FN

110 grain RN:

7grs: 1162 fps 13grs: 1858 fps 8grs: 1266 fps 14grs: 1924 fps 9grs: 1358 fps 15grs: 2087 fps 10grs: 1542 fps 16grs: 2143 fps 11grs: 1706 fps 17grs: 2244 fps 12grs: 1720 fps 18grs: 2322 fps

170 grains Flat Nose

7grs: 1009 fps 12grs: 1473 fps 8grs: 1078 fps 13grs: 1555 fps 9grs: 1153 fps 14grs: 1597 fps 10grs: 1277 fps 15grs: 1685 fps 11grs: 1389 fps

Notes:

  1. This is a great youth rifle in 30/30. Recoil is even much lower than factory 30/30 loads.
  2. Penetration of an 8 inched diameter pine for a back stop, was penetrated completely thru with a velocity of 1000 fps with the 170 grain bullet and with a velocity of 1200 fps with the 110 grain round nose.

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Ed Harris posted this 11 July 2008

My educated guess is that Blue Dot charges over about 14 grs. of Blue Dot with a 170-gr. bullet in the .30-30 are “probably” too hot and I don't think I'd want to exceed about 15 grs. with the 110-gr. bullets. 

I have no pressure tested data to base this on, but it is a reasonable judgement considering that Alliant's published data on their web site tops out for pressure using 16 grs. of #2400 in the .30-30 with a 170-gr. jacketed bullet and #2400 is a slower powder than Blue Dot. 

Using the 110-gr. jacketed bullets I have found they perform best at velocities which approximate the .30 M1 Carbine velocities they are designed for. Not over about 2000 fps.  The 16 grs. of #2400 charge I use with my GC cast bullet loads shoots well with the Remington 110-gr. JSP so I see no reason to change. 

Just my two cents.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

For the 100/110gr plinkers I use 9gr of Unique most of the time. I got this from a shooting times article back in the early nineties or late eighties. I haven't tried the bluedot loads with 170gr bullets. I have used 150gr. I would like to try it with the sierra HP 30-30 bullets.   Have you written any books? If you have what is/are the titles?

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Ed Harris posted this 11 July 2008

jimkim wrote: Have you written any books? If you have what is/are the titles?

I haven't written any books.  I've written a bunch of articles in American Rifleman from 1972-1984 and some for the Gun Digest, but based onr experience writing articles for publication the only ones who profit are the publishers.  Except when on staff at NRA I never got paid enough money for an article to cover more than expenses. 

Gun books are mostly a vanity press and aren't a good deal financially for authors.  I'd rather just post my stuff free on the Internet for the enjoyment of any who care to read it.  If the CBA would like to collect my works here and in the Fouling Shot and use any proceeds to help the game, that would be OK. I'll leave that project to somebody else.  That fits my “Ed's Red” philosophy on life.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

I know I sure have enjoyed your writing. At least what I've read. Someone gave me a link. I cant tell if these are real loads or computer generated. They look like they are from a ballistics computer or something along those lines. How do they look? How accurate do you think the data is? http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm>http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

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Ed Harris posted this 11 July 2008

That's a very good link. 

I have found the .357 Magnum and the .30-'06 data to be spot-on.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

I posted this same question on several other sites. It is interesting to see the other responses. I had one guy that told me it was unsafe to use jacketed bullets with these loads. One guy suggested IMR 3031.  Of all the forums I've been in this is the best source for exchanging info on loading. I am blown away by the truly helpful and friendly people I have met here. Thank you all so much,Jim

This is what I run into EVERYTIME  reduced loads or rifle loads using pistol powders are discussed.  Sam makes me want to twist his head off sometimes.

http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/55699-reduced-subsonic-308-loads.html#post559538>http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/55699-reduced-subsonic-308-loads.html#post559538

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linoww posted this 11 July 2008

"I cannot stress strong enough the danger of using small R/P powder loads in casings that are larger capacity than .22 Hornet without using a filler to hold the powder back to the ignition hole.It may not blow the first time,it may not blow in hundreds of rounds,but blow it will and once whether on the first round or # 1000,once will be suficient.There are lots of articles on this,read up on it.   sam."   This is one of Sams posts from the link.We are in danger here guys<G>   George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

You see what I mean. Did you read the last exchange.

Check out the first two responces to the 30-30 pistol powder question.

http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/56009-30-30-pistol-powder.html>http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/56009-30-30-pistol-powder.html

Tell me Why I'm so impressed with you guys. I found real handloaders WOOT!!!

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linoww posted this 11 July 2008

"Altho reduced charges have their place (usually because someone cant afford different guns for different jobs)I personally would never attempt it without some way to hold the powder against the ignition hole.

Sam."

Now that is a classic<G>

I'll just stop reading that forum and stay here don't want to start  a forum war<G>

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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jimkim posted this 11 July 2008

linoww wrote: "Altho reduced charges have their place (usually because someone cant afford different guns for different jobs)I personally would never attempt it without some way to hold the powder against the ignition hole.

Sam."

Now that is a classic<G>

I'll just stop reading that forum and stay here don't want to start  a forum war<G>

George

Hahahaha What makes it so bad is I wasnt even arguing with him. I have seen him argue with himself for two sometimes three days. Hahahaha

 

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jimkim posted this 14 July 2008

I posted this question on several different sites. I wanted to try and  get as many new loads as possible. I also wanted to compare the answers.  I posted the links so you could see the various responses. I thought it would be easier to share like this.

 Some of the people were quite helpful.

I have now loaded my 30-30 with unique,blue dot,red dot and 2400. I want more loads using pistol powder. I would like some using 700x,800x or PB.  Bullet weights would be 100-180 gr cast lead OR jacketed.  If you have some please share them. I have the Trail Boss data already. Thank you so much.Jim

http:/.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2596#post2596

http://reloaders.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=822>http://reloaders.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=822

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_topic.php?id=2499&forum_id=8&jump_to=14137#p14137>http://www.castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=2499&forumid=8&jumpto=14137#p14137       

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=376970>http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=376970

http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=48396>http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=48396

http://www.thefiringline.coms/showthread.php?t=301792>http://www.thefiringline.coms/showthread.php?t=301792

http://www.marlinowners.coms/index.php/topic,31270.msg289699.html#msg289699>http://www.marlinowners.coms/index.php/topic,31270.msg289699.html#msg289699

http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/56009-30-30-pistol-powder.html>http://www.gunandgame.coms/handloading/56009-30-30-pistol-powder.html

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linoww posted this 14 July 2008

Going to test the 30-30 Marlin microgroove with two plain-base loads Wednesday.I will be using 6.0 of Winchester Super Target "WST” .I have had good luck with it in a 30-30 bolt action rifle and with 4.5g in the 22-250 low velocity loads.I will be shooting the SAECO #630(140 fn) and Lyman 308241(150rn) I will keep you posted.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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jimkim posted this 15 July 2008

Thanks, When you get a chance check out the gunloads link.

http:/.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2596#post2596

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linoww posted this 15 July 2008

Nice reply from Sierra.Good to see they “care"It looks like it mayhave shut down the “experts” about reduced loads.

I used to shoot W296 and H110 in the 308 (18-19g) and 30-30 (15-16g) both with 180-200g bullets. I think it has the potential to be dangerous.I never varied the bullet weight or charges so maybe thats why i had no trouble.And i never heard of anybody that did ,at least personally.I burned pounds of the stuff,but 2400 does the same accuracy wise so why take the risk.I believe Olin ran some data with cast for Ed Harris years back in the 308 and said it gave odd pressure spikes.(I don't remember where i read this) This may be the “urban legend” they keep repeating about reduced load danger.The bigger risk is double charging the small pistol powder loads in the big cases.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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jimkim posted this 15 July 2008

What makes it so bad Mr. Expert is the mod. I think it is a case of I don't use those loads so nobody else should. I'll never understand what is wrong with the pursuit of knowledge. I like increasing the versatility and accuracy of my rifles. I would be interested to know if Ed had to put up with this much negative feedback before he became an icon(at least to the people that read his articles). Has it always been this bad?  I'm just tired of being asked “WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT” everytime I ask a question. If you dont ever try anything new......You will never get anything done. sorry for the rant. Jim

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Ed Harris posted this 16 July 2008

jimkim wrote: I would be interested to know if Ed had to put up with this much negative feedback... sorry for the rant. Jim I never met a successful writer or editor with a thin skin. 

When I used to get “bedbug letters” when at the NRA I would suggest that they submit their ideas for publication and would send them the writer's guidelines. It seemed logical that if they were so knowledgeable and could succinctly put it on paper that they should get paid!  After all, I was getting paid for the junk I write! 

A rejection letter or two is great for character building. You must learn not to take it personally. I prise rejections from other publishers of articles which the Gun Digest bought and for which I won the Amber prize for.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jimkim posted this 16 July 2008

I never thought of myself as a writer. Thanks Ed I'm just flustered I guess. I get tired of having to argue with “experts” that make blanket statements instead of just answering the questions. Thank God I found the CBA forum. I really mean that. I have felt stifled for the past six months.

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linoww posted this 17 July 2008

linoww wrote: Going to test the 30-30 Marlin microgroove with two plain-base loads Wednesday.I will be using 6.0 of Winchester Super Target "WST” .I have had good luck with it in a 30-30 bolt action rifle and with 4.5g in the 22-250 low velocity loads.I will be shooting the SAECO #630(140 fn) and Lyman 308241(150rn) I will keep you posted.

George

The charge was actually 7.0 of WST,I mistyped it.

The SAECO #630 was not too good running 2.5” groups.The Lyman 308241(out of a7 cavity mold) did better.The first group with it was 4-1/2"! With the first two shot landed high left 3" with the last three “on target"into about 1.5" The next two groups were 1.9” and 1.6” and landed where the last three shots of the first group “settled".I shot one 5 shoter' at 200 yards and it was a touch over 5".Still work to do for sure.I shot the remainder offhand at gallon milk jugs at 100.The real purpose for the load anyway.For that they both were a 100% success.Even if my offhand was “awfull"hand yesturday.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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