22 250 225415 AND TITEGROUP

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  • Last Post 24 May 2016
joeb33050 posted this 13 May 2016

RIFLE AND PISTOL

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mtngun posted this 14 May 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2016

So far; No 223 barrel shoots CBs accurately, reliably-I have a new barrel to test today All except 1 22-250 barrels shoot 225646M and 8/SR4756 accurately, reliably. More testing of that 1 today. No powder yet, in 22-250, is as accurate as SR4756; including Titegroup, Blue Dot and IMR 4227. Testing continues. Ken is chambering a not-accurate 223 barrel to 22-250, to see if it shoots accurately. I need NOE nose size parts, the guy doesn't answer emails. joe b.

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mtngun posted this 14 May 2016

joeb33050 wrote: I have a new barrel to test today Ken is chambering a not-accurate 223 barrel to 22-250, Is your “new” 223 barrel another $50 Savage barrel? I look forward to the results with the re-chambered barrel.     

Thanks as always for sharing real data.   :dude: I can't help you with NOE.    He seems to be trying to be the new Lee.   Lee is not something I have ever aspired to be.   :D  :D  :D

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.22-10-45 posted this 14 May 2016

Interesting about using Titegroup powder. I have been using Vhtavuori N110 & N120 in a Shilen barreled 1-14” twist .22 Hornet. a bit more accurate than my go-to H4227 powder for this ctg. & alot cleaner burning. I have also used N120 with very good accuracy..going to have to chrono this powder, as report and pressures seem to equal jacketed loads.

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2016

A while back I bought a Savage heavy varmint barrel in 22-250, allegedly new, for $110. It shot cast bullets VERY poorly. John Alexander agreed to borescope etc inspect the barrel, off it went, John inspected, and back it came. I put it on a M10 action. The 225646M bullet, gas checked, unsized, LLA, with 8/SR4756 is the most accurate load in 2 22” Savage sporter barrels and the Striker pistol. After a few foulers, it shot a 5 shot 100 yard group of 7 3/8 inches. I thought the OAL might be a little too much, reduced it from 2.34” to 2.21 inches on five cartridges and shot them into a group of  7 3/4 inches. I had loaded Hornady 55 gr VMAX with 34/Varget, shot a few to sight in and shot groups of 1.45” and 1.1".

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2016

With the 22-250 barrel, John Alexander sent me a 26” heavy varmint Savage barrel in 223. John got this barrel from Pat Iffland. I screwed this on a Savage 12FV action, loaded 225646M with 9.5/IMR4227-as good a load as any I've tried in the past 3 years, and shot 5 shot 100 yard groups of 3.2", 3.5", 2.8", 3.3” and 4.15". Average = 3.39".

Hornady 55 gr VMAX and 25/Varget shot into 1.85” and 1.0".

(These jacketed loads are bullets and powder on hand, about a starting load, no load development.

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OU812 posted this 14 May 2016

I started to use the word FOOLISHNESS, but I think I will be nice.

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2016

I've shot a lot of 223 barrels, two 3 year stints, and have never found a Savage barrel to shoot cast bullets into 5 shot 5 group 100 yard averages much under 2", reliably. Right now I wouldn't take an even money bet that I could average <2". I'd like to hear about/from anyone shooting ~ 1.5” cb, 223. I'm done with the 223, it makes no sense to go on, with Savage barrels. I'm thinking about a non-Savage custom barrel in 223.

22-250 is easy to shoot accurately with cast bullets. I have 2 22” Savage sporter barrels that will average ~ 1.5", and a Striker that averages <2"-a pistol.

SR4756 is the most accurate powder for me in 22-250 with cast. I'm searching for a substitute, since this powder is no longer made.

The 223 to 22-250 rechamber should tell us/suggest if the larger ctg in a 223 bbl is accurate. 

And the beat goes on.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 14 May 2016

water and vodka makes you drunk ... water and vodka makes you drunk... water and rum makes you drunk ...

easy to see that water should be kept out of the mouths of children ...

savage barrels in 223 shoot bigger groups ...

??

ken

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 14 May 2016

joeb...you should be able to find takeoff remmy barrels in 223 for $50 ...need to be adapted, but i have tooling for that .

if ready for stage three, i will look in my stash and see if i have anything interesting ...

stage 4 would be a match quality barrel in the first place ... but that would ruin the hunt ...

hey what do you think about a nice 22 rimfire barrel ... probably 15-16 twist but it shot 3/8 at 50 yards ... not good enough for 22 rf match but might be a step up from those mysterious savages ... might stabilize 55 gr cast ...450, 462, etc .... i would donate it for the fun of it :: weird is more interesting .

ken

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2016

OU812 wrote: I started to use the word FOOLISHNESS, but I think I will be nice.I keep checking the mail for your miraculous .82” long bullets that stabilize in a 12” twist. The rifle is ready! Should I send postage? So far, I'm not IMPRESSED! joe b.

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joeb33050 posted this 16 May 2016

I recently posted above about the 22-250 HV barrel that shot groups of 7 3/8” and 7 3/4", and showed a picture of these groups. This with 225646M, GC, unsized, LLA, 8 grains of SR4756. I had loaded a batch of these, plenty left. I took the HV barrel off, screwed the $50 Savage M11 barrel on the M10, and shot it. Five 5 shot groups averaged 1.485". The Savage 22-250 barrels average around 1.5” with this load.

The HV 22-250 barrel is inaccurate with cast bullets, probably fine with jacketed. Maybe we should wonder why some barrels shoot jacketed and won't shoot cast.

Searching for the substitute for the defunct SR4756, tried Titegroup. Five 5 shot groups averaged 1.515” Titegroup seems to shoot slightly larger groups than SR4756.

Is anyone impressed?

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joeb33050 posted this 17 May 2016

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote: joeb...you should be able to find takeoff remmy barrels in 223 for $50 ...need to be adapted, but i have tooling for that .

Can't find one.

if ready for stage three, i will look in my stash and see if i have anything interesting ...

Please look.

stage 4 would be a match quality barrel in the first place ... but that would ruin the hunt ...

hey what do you think about a nice 22 rimfire barrel ... probably 15-16 twist but it shot 3/8 at 50 yards ... not good enough for 22 rf match but might be a step up from those mysterious savages ... might stabilize 55 gr cast ...450, 462, etc .... i would donate it for the fun of it :: weird is more interesting .

A 22 rf barrel chambered to 223 or 22-250 in 15-16” twist will, according to Greenhill, stabilize the NOE 37 or 45 grain bullets, the Lyman 225438, or a mountain molds mold-I can't figure out if mountain makes 22 molds. If you'll machine a 22 rf barrel, I'll buy the mold. Maybe we can duplicate 22rf performance in a cf.

ken

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billglaze posted this 17 May 2016

Ken and Joe: Boy, the comparison suggested above has me on the edge of my seat--I'd be highly interested to see if there's a difference between a rimfire-spec barrel, and achieving the same (or similar) performance with a center fire. In any event, it sure would open up a new corridor for experimentation.

I recently started shooting my Mom's original Rem.Mod. 37 Rangemaster that I inherited. Even ammo that's not top-of-the-line Match stuff, the accuracy is kind of amazing. Particularly so, considering the rifle hadn't been shot for at least 60 years. (And no, you guys can't have the barrel!) (VBG!)

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Paul Pollard posted this 17 May 2016

Joe B,

You wrote: I had loaded Hornady 55 gr VMAX with 34/Varget, shot a few to sight in and shot groups of 1.45” and 1.1".

Just curious, Joe. When you try your barrels with jacketed bullets, you use a starting load of Varget with good results. Have you tried the jacketed bullets with your cast bullet powder and charge? What are those results?

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 May 2016

billg::

we all enjoy the challenge of trying to get our cast rigs to shoot under 2 moa ...

but once in a while, it is just cathartic to pull out a good rimfire rifle and good rf ammo... and watch the bullet hit the crosshair at 50 yards ... every time ... sigh ...

when i had my 40X my grandsons and i would shoot flys at 50 yards ... sigh ... ( soft lead, no gascheck, short bearing surface, length too short ... ) ...

i doubt that a 22 rimfire barrel is of better mfg. than a good centerfire ... but then it's available, and what the heck ... this one is a rem. custom shop 40X takeoff ... vt. in SS.

ken

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joeb33050 posted this 17 May 2016

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B,

You wrote: I had loaded Hornady 55 gr VMAX with 34/Varget, shot a few to sight in and shot groups of 1.45” and 1.1".

Just curious, Joe. When you try your barrels with jacketed bullets, you use a starting load of Varget with good results. Have you tried the jacketed bullets with your cast bullet powder and charge? What are those results?No. I have few jacketed  bullets, had a box of 250 Horn 55 gr VMAX, They're loaded-~25?, otherwise gone. Every now and then I shoot a few jacketed bullets to see if the barrel shoots. I don't know much about jacketed, but I've never seen a barrel shoot cast that won't shoot jacketed. I've seen several that shoot jacketed, but do very poorly with cast. I suspect it's true that if the barrel won't shoot jacketed accurately, it won't shoot cast accurately. However, now that I think of it, I've never had a Savage barrel that wouldn't accurately shoot jacketed, < 1.5” for a couple of groups out of the chute, no load development. Jacketed and 8/SR4756, I don't see the point. I'll try a few, 22-250, 8/SR4756. But those jbs are expensive!

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joeb33050 posted this 17 May 2016

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote: billg::

we all enjoy the challenge of trying to get our cast rigs to shoot under 2 moa ...

but once in a while, it is just cathartic to pull out a good rimfire rifle and good rf ammo... and watch the bullet hit the crosshair at 50 yards ... every time ... sigh ...

when i had my 40X my grandsons and i would shoot flys at 50 yards ... sigh ... ( soft lead, no gascheck, short bearing surface, length too short ... ) ...

i doubt that a 22 rimfire barrel is of better mfg. than a good centerfire ... but then it's available, and what the heck ... this one is a rem. custom shop 40X takeoff ... vt. in SS.

kenI've been heard to mumble that all 22s shoot well. I had a Savage 19 NRA Match that would reliably hit shotgun shells standing up at 100 yards. From Rem single shots to J. C. Higgins to Marlin 39As, they all seem to shoot. The only 22 that I've found to be inaccurate is my/grandkids Ruger 10 22. Any ammo, just poor. I'll bet that most any bolt action cheap single shot 22 will shoot 1” fifty yard groups with some ammo. Eley red box? My 12/15 Martini will reliably average 1” at 100 yards with 30X STS and good ammo, no wind, and that rifle has led a long hard life.

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billglaze posted this 17 May 2016

Joe and Ken: There just has to be some kind or idiocy in our working our butts off, generally unsuccessfully, to get the occasional 1.5 moa center fire group, when we have complete control over all aspects of the ammo--varying powder and charge, tailoring velocity, etc. etc.--it could just go on and on. Then, to take a .22 rim fire out, and shoot less than 1/2” at 50 yards without using top-drawer ammo that's been shaken right out of a box grabbed from a dept. store shelf--as Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes) would say: “The irony is just sickening.”

We're still in the game; I guess we'll just have to keep playing it.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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joeb33050 posted this 17 May 2016

billglaze wrote: Joe and Ken: There just has to be some kind or idiocy in our working our butts off, generally unsuccessfully, to get the occasional 1.5 moa center fire group, when we have complete control over all aspects of the ammo--varying powder and charge, tailoring velocity, etc. etc.--it could just go on and on. Then, to take a .22 rim fire out, and shoot less than 1/2” at 50 yards without using top-drawer ammo that's been shaken right out of a box grabbed from a dept. store shelf--as Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes) would say: “The irony is just sickening.”

We're still in the game; I guess we'll just have to keep playing it.

BillBill; You're not making me feel happy about my gooning about with these dam cast bullets. Perhaps jacketed with cast loads of powder. At least I'm not coating them with plastic and baking them-the boss has spoken on that topic. If only John would go to the cellar! joe b.

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