22 250 225415 AND TITEGROUP

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OU812 posted this 24 May 2016

joeb33050 wrote: Please send 300 bullets gas checked and lubed, and I'll wring them out. Maybe 400. Do what you think best. 500? Joe, I will send you some more bullets since you like testing and posting pictures. I will send some 1/20 alloy and harder 13 bhn birdshot alloy. The harder 13 bhn likes higher pressures so push these harder. These are cast directly from my shortened mold (not trimmed). I believe that dipping bullets in Alox will work, but barrel may foul sooner maybe?

BTW all bullets are cast at max temp of 900 degrees using RCBS bottom pour pot. I was pressure casting, but this caused too much weight variation. Now I just hold mold about 1/4 from spout and pour into front and rear cavity (avoiding center cavity improves venting). Adjusting spout flow so that it flows slower improves bullet fill out.

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John Alexander posted this 24 May 2016

Paul Pollard wrote:According to the JBM site, a smaller meplat on the same bullet increases the stability. I used .1 caliber tip vs .35 caliber tip and it increased sg from 1.4 and 13.6 twist to 1.5 and 14.0 twist at the same velocity. So maybe the old saw about the base being important and not the tip....maybe not. Paul, You are beginning to sound a little like certain articles in TFS in challenging some of the RECEIVED WISDOM FROM THE MASTERS. Shame. John

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joeb33050 posted this 24 May 2016

mtngun wrote: Thanks for the clarification, Joe. :)

I've always wondered if the very tip of a sharp spitzer should count when estimating stability? Say, compared to taking the same bullet and filing the tip back to a small meplat similar to OU812's proposed “improved 75 grain” design? It's hard to believe that the tip changes the balance that much?

We'd expect bullets to stabilize at slower-than-expected twists if bullet density is higher than 10.9, atmosphere density is slow or velocity is very high. Well, it isn't the density of the bullet or atmosphere, and it's not the velocity. The bullet is far from a prolate spheroid, so maybe it's the shape. This is an example of little testing required to prove a fact. A .89” long .224” dia. bullet at low velocity (7/Titegroup) stabilizing in a 12” twist barrel, or 2, opens up a whole new aproach to CB accuracy.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 May 2016

is total confusion a sure indication that great understanding is sure to shortly follow ?

my vessel is awaiting imminent fulfillment ...

ken

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OU812 posted this 23 May 2016

The vertical stringing is caused by wide velocity spread...smaller case like 221 Fireball, 222, 223 will improve grouping. The soft 20-1 alloy is easy to cut smooth bases without tear holes or raised sprue cuts. I have lots of these to test

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 23 May 2016

OU812 wrote: Good shooting, but I am disappointed you did not shoot them at 100 yards. More tinkering with different powders and better loading techniques will really tighten those groups. I would like to see NOE modify this mold with shorter Gas Check shank.I shot at 50 yards because I knew the bullets wouldn't stabilize or stay on the paper at 100 yards!! (Didn't look at Greenhill closely enough!)Wednesday I'll try again! Please send 300 bullets gas checked and lubed, and I'll wring them out. Maybe 400. Do what you think best. 500?

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OU812 posted this 23 May 2016

Good shooting, but I am disappointed you did not shoot them at 100 yards. More tinkering with different powders and better loading techniques will really tighten those groups.

I would like to see NOE modify this mold with shorter Gas Check shank.

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CBA Member

Paul Pollard posted this 23 May 2016

According to the JBM site, a smaller meplat on the same bullet increases the stability. I used .1 caliber tip vs .35 caliber tip and it increased sg from 1.4 and 13.6 twist to 1.5 and 14.0 twist at the same velocity. So maybe the old saw about the base being important and not the tip....maybe not.

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CBA Member

mtngun posted this 23 May 2016

Thanks for the clarification, Joe. :)

I've always wondered if the very tip of a sharp spitzer should count when estimating stability? Say, compared to taking the same bullet and filing the tip back to a small meplat similar to OU812's proposed “improved 75 grain” design? It's hard to believe that the tip changes the balance that much?

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CBA Member

gpidaho posted this 23 May 2016

joeb3350: I hope this relieves a little tension Joe, you were beginning to develop an eye tic. Persistence is paying off. Nice work. Gp

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joeb33050 posted this 23 May 2016

mtngun wrote: That's a decent start, Joe. 223 or 22-250?ADDED EDITS.

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mtngun posted this 23 May 2016

That's a decent start, Joe. 223 or 22-250?

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joeb33050 posted this 23 May 2016

I shot the 5 modified 227-80 NOE bullets, .89” long, 7.0/Titegroup, in a Savage M10 with M11 22” barrel. At 50 yards, because I knew that they wouldn't stabilize. 1 sighter 225415, then the 5. Barrel was 22-250 with 12” carefully/frequently measured twist.

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OU812 posted this 22 May 2016

Hey Joe,

Less neck tension will allow for easier chambering. It also prevents that pesky ring on bullets nose when seating soft bullet in seating die. Less neck tension also helps me load more concentric rounds. The Lee collet die can be adjusted for this.

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OU812 posted this 21 May 2016

joeb33050 wrote: I used 1 bullet to find oal, 2.655” is a hard push in. Loaded five ctgs with 7/Titegroup. Will shoot Monday. Thanks for the bullets; joe b. You are welcome. Make sure bullet is not being pushed back too far into case and that front band jams into rifling.

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joeb33050 posted this 21 May 2016

OU812 wrote: Joe,

Try the 55 grain Nosler Balistic Tips. They would shoot .250 groups in my 1/12 twist 223 Remington.

Tracking shows you should receive cast bullets today. I am sure they will shoot fine.Thank you. I got the bulletys yesterday. They are .89” long. I checked the twist, again, on the M11 barrel on the M10 action; it is 1 turn in 12". I used 1 bullet to find oal, 2.655” is a hard push in. Loaded five ctgs with 7/Titegroup. Will shoot Monday. Thanks for the bullets; joe b.

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Standard Member

OU812 posted this 20 May 2016

Joe,

Try the 55 grain Nosler Balistic Tips. They would shoot .250 groups in my 1/12 twist 223 Remington.

Tracking shows you should receive cast bullets today. I am sure they will shoot fine.

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joeb33050 posted this 20 May 2016

Striker

225415 and 9.5 IMR4227 went thrugh the paper sideways. Loaded 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5 and 12 gr shot as shown. A few of the 12 gr charge bullets were still tipping.

40 gr. Varemageddon jacketed bullets, 7 gr. Titegroup, 3 sighters/foulers, then 5 in .95", 5 in .575".