Shooting A "Sewer Pipe" .45

  • 2.4K Views
  • Last Post 08 March 2016
Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

Last year I picked up a WW1-era M1917 S&W .45 DA Hand Ejector from the estate of a WW2 vet who passed. While the gun timed, indexed and locked up great, its barrel was completely washed out, having been abused for over a half-Century of not being cleaned after having been fired with WW2-era corrosive primers. 

My plan was to rebarrel the gun, but first I wanted to shoot the “sewer pipe” barrel with its accompanying WW2-era hardball, purely for academic curiosity, just to see if it would still produce hits at “across the bar room floor” distance, aka 25 feet.  And it did.  EC43 hardball would just about stay in your hat.  If you look in the photo below, there are several circled full-broadside keyholes around the bull which sure would hurt!

At 25 yards firing ordinary cast lead bullet reloads about 2/3 of the bullets keyholed, but most of them would have still hit an “E” silhouette. Re-enactors who fire flintlock horse pistols tell me that a dispersion of “one inch per yard” is normal in firing a smoothbore flinter unsighted in “instinctive point” shooting, being extended with the weak hand, as you brandish your cutlass with the strong one, Errol Flynn swashbuckling pirate stuff. 

While a revolver with rusted out “sewer pipe” barrel wouldn't be your first choice if expecting combat, if you had no gun at all and came found this one foraging during your TEOTWAWKI scenario, you delighted to make do with it until you got something better. I also tried some shot loads in the “sewer pipe” S&W M1917 .45 revolver.  Result was that it is NOT the “world's greatest snake gun” with shot. If it put the center of the pattern even close to where the sights look it might have possibilities, but if I'm going to spend any money on this gun, it's going to be for a re-barrel, re-cylinder and reblue, so it can become a daily carry.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

"Sewer Pipe .45” is now back from the Beauty Parlor with a new replacement Brazilian barrel and a new .45 Colt, rather than ACP cylinder.

Upon examination of the original (pitted) .45 ACP cylinder John Taylor recommended replacing it. So, we shopped around on GunBroker and for $125 found a used S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum cylinder, a fellow in Texas had extra, from when he returned his Model 29 to the factory for rebuild, and returned his old cylinder. A CBA forum member in Texas swapped me a new S&W .45 barrel, with deeper rifling (.440 bore and .452 groove) as made for the 1937 Brazilian contract, for a couple of my extra molds.  A great deal!

We decided to exploit the full 1.70” length of the used .44 Magnum cylinder, which was line bored and rechambered to .45 Colt, having .452” cylinder throats, a correct match for the replacement Brazilian M1937 S&W manufacture barrel. The replacement barrels made for the Brazilian contact have wider lands and deeper grooves than WW1-era US service barrels so represent an improvement.

The greater (1.7” vs. 1.5") cylinder length enables it to accept longer cartridges which fit my Ruger New Model Blackhawk. The better modern steel and heat treatment of the rechambered .44 Magnum cylinder gives an improved margin of safety. I have no plans for firing high-pressure “Ruger Only” (25,000 psi) loads in this gun, but I will somewhat exceed “standard pressure” 14,000 psi loads, staying within .45 ACP pressures (about 20,000 psi) for which the 1917 was originally designed. This will permit 1000 fps with a 230-grain bullet which the fixed sights are regulated for, or 900+ fps with a 260-grainer.

Modifications required were machining the frame lug to clear the longer .44 Magnum cylinder which does not have the moon clip clearance in the back. The .45 Colt case heads are recessed, which I also like. The barrel extension which protrudes into the frame window also has to be shortened a bit to clear the longer .44 Magnum cylinder, which was done, and a new forcing cone cut and polished. The original tiny U notch rear sight in the frame was squared and widened a bit to improve sight picture, a new cylinder bolt fitted and the gun timed and indexed for the new cylinder.

The modern steel .44 Magnum cylinder re-chambered for .45 Colt will be quite strong enough. Any use of heavier than standard pressure .45 Colt loads will be minimal, because the resulting gun is very light and handy and recoil will be stout with the service grips and Tyler T-Grip. Traditional .45 Colt loads using a 250-grain flat-nosed bullet with 8 grains of Unique or 6.5 grains of Bullseye approximate smokeless factory loads before they started loading them down to reduce recoil for the cowboy action shooters. My reasoning is that a 230-grain approaching 1000 fps equals .45 ACP +P and a 250-grain lead bullet approaching 900 fps was what they used with black powder to kill buffalo and shoot Indians, so will do the work. I have shot loads assembled in the 5 in 1 blank cases to provide small game versatility.

My 230-grain cast soft lead hollow points and 200-grain lead flat-nosed Cowboy bullets with 7.2 grains of Bullseye, the same charge I load with bullets of similar weight and shape in the .44-40 Winchester and .44 Magnum, should also be within standard pressure, but will shoot flatter and hit hard at about 1000 fps, also similar to .45 ACP +P. Entirely adequate for most uses you need a revolver for. Range report to follow when weather permits. Here is the eye candy.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Duane Mellenbruch posted this 21 February 2016

I have a 1911 Colt that I was going to replace the very dark and pitted barrel. Shot some lapping loads and decided it did not need to be replaced.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

Duane Mellenbruch wrote: I have a 1911 Colt that I was going to replace the very dark and pitted barrel. Shot some lapping loads and decided it did not need to be replaced. Did yours look THIS bad?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

And here is what the cylinder looked like

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

oscarflytyer posted this 21 February 2016

wow! that WAS a sewer pipe! Looks great now! It is interesting that it shot as well as it did!  And probably still better than some could shoot it!  I have only ever had one milsurp that keyhold bullets - rifle keyholed at 25 yds/couldn't find the paper at 50 yds.  Traded it as it had pure history aspect and I had no desire for a project.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 February 2016

hi ed ; extra WOW ... as i get older those old guns don't seem quite so old ... heh ...

thanks for the smiles ...

ken

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 21 February 2016

I have an old Colt 1911 barrel from a gun that was stolen from me long ago. The rifling is really worn down. I've kept it thinking there's a way to hone it out completely smooth for use with shotshells made from 30-06 brass. Would that be an NFA issue? By the way, thanks Ed. Cool project.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

It would be an NFA issue, but I have the pulloff barrel if anyone wants it to relineor whatever. Also the original pitted cylinder whch xan be striped for ejectie rid, center pin, extractor, etc. if anybody wants them.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

45 2.1 posted this 21 February 2016

At one time, a friend of mine had an old 1917 Colt that had just the memory of rifling in it (yours had great rifling in comparison). Hardball and anything else he tried just produced full keyholes at 10 yards. I have an RCBS 265 gr. RN nose meant for the 455 Webley. That bullet cast at about 8 BHN shot fifty cent piece size groups at 10 yards with it with full loads. He used it for a house gun there after. Something for others to try when they run into handguns like that.

Attached Files

Duane Mellenbruch posted this 21 February 2016

Sorry to get back so late Ed, but no, not that bad. I was not sure if I could still see the lands before those lapping shots though. It did surprise me how well it responded to lapping so others might consider that before re-barreling if it is not as bad as your firearm.

Attached Files

R. Dupraz posted this 21 February 2016

Thanks Ed for the post. What an interesting project. From an old pistolero, love those wheel guns and especially how this old trooper was given a new life once again.

Attached Files

ericp posted this 22 February 2016

Wow, great photos of the muzzle and cylinder throats! Looking forward to the range report on the new cylinder. Which design is your 230gr HP?

Eric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

My 230 lead HP is the Accurate 45-245D of my design, based on old Keith 1920s Belding & Mull profile, with two if its four cavities modified by Erik at http://www.hollowpointmold.com>http://www.hollowpointmold.com Imagine my .380 ACP bullet scaled up to .45!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

358156hp posted this 22 February 2016

I was looking at having a Lyman 454190 hollowpointed for use in 1911s, but I do like the look of your design too.

Decisions, decisions....

Attached Files

Dale53 posted this 22 February 2016

Ed; What an elegant way to restore that old war horse! Good show!

That should make a dandy field pistol, indeed.

Dale53

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

358156hp wrote: I was looking at having a Lyman 454190 hollowpointed for use in 1911s, but I do like the look of your design too.

Decisions, decisions.... Nose length from crimp groove to meplat of 45-245D is too long to chamber in an M1911 barrel, because the nose is too “fat.”  It was originally intended for the .45 Auto Rim and impinges against the rifling in a autopistol barrel unless seated deeply, thereby ignoring the crimp groove.

Overall length when crimped in the crimp groove using .45 Colt brass is 1.66” which exceeds SAAMI max. cartridge and is too long to fit in the Colt SAA or New Service.  It works fine in Schofield brass in the older guns and works fine in .45 Colt brass for New Model Ruger, Vaquero and others such as my hybrid M1917, which now has the longer 1.70” cylinder.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

ericp posted this 22 February 2016

Good looking bullet. Thanks for the picture.

Eric

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

ericp wrote: Good looking bullet. Thanks for the picture.

Eric Here is the drawing:

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

mckg posted this 22 February 2016

Ed, why didn't you lap your bore and made it a .480 Achiles !? :)

http://www.leverguns.com/480/

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

mckg wrote: Ed, why didn't you lap your bore and made it a .480 Achiles !? :)

http://www.leverguns.com/480/>http://www.leverguns.com/480/ Don't think so...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Close