Shooting A "Sewer Pipe" .45

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  • Last Post 08 March 2016
Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

Last year I picked up a WW1-era M1917 S&W .45 DA Hand Ejector from the estate of a WW2 vet who passed. While the gun timed, indexed and locked up great, its barrel was completely washed out, having been abused for over a half-Century of not being cleaned after having been fired with WW2-era corrosive primers. 

My plan was to rebarrel the gun, but first I wanted to shoot the “sewer pipe” barrel with its accompanying WW2-era hardball, purely for academic curiosity, just to see if it would still produce hits at “across the bar room floor” distance, aka 25 feet.  And it did.  EC43 hardball would just about stay in your hat.  If you look in the photo below, there are several circled full-broadside keyholes around the bull which sure would hurt!

At 25 yards firing ordinary cast lead bullet reloads about 2/3 of the bullets keyholed, but most of them would have still hit an “E” silhouette. Re-enactors who fire flintlock horse pistols tell me that a dispersion of “one inch per yard” is normal in firing a smoothbore flinter unsighted in “instinctive point” shooting, being extended with the weak hand, as you brandish your cutlass with the strong one, Errol Flynn swashbuckling pirate stuff. 

While a revolver with rusted out “sewer pipe” barrel wouldn't be your first choice if expecting combat, if you had no gun at all and came found this one foraging during your TEOTWAWKI scenario, you delighted to make do with it until you got something better. I also tried some shot loads in the “sewer pipe” S&W M1917 .45 revolver.  Result was that it is NOT the “world's greatest snake gun” with shot. If it put the center of the pattern even close to where the sights look it might have possibilities, but if I'm going to spend any money on this gun, it's going to be for a re-barrel, re-cylinder and reblue, so it can become a daily carry.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 08 March 2016

John Taylor does good work, affordably! Here are some examples of how shot loads do in the new barrel.  They shoot closer to point of aim and are more evenly distributed than the “sewer pipe” barrel.   Starline “5 in 1 Blank” cases, 5 grains of Bullseye, Buffalo Arms card over powder, Federal SC410 shotcup cut off at case mouth, 1/3 oz. No.8 with .390” roundball crimped in the end, because I wanted to see how close to point of aim the ball went.  Patterns at 15 ft. and 25 ft.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

RicinYakima posted this 08 March 2016

Ed, Your project turned out very good looking and it seems to shoot pretty well. At least much better than any factory S&W 1917 I ever got to shoot! Ric

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R. Dupraz posted this 07 March 2016

I am jealous ED. Better keep her locked up!

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Ed Harris posted this 07 March 2016

Finally got a good range day where it wasn't windy.

The restored warhorse approves of the .45 Colt.  Shot several 12-shot groups center of mass hold on 10-inch square D1C repair center at 25 yards.  All looked like this one, with the occasional flier, one per cylinder load.  Bullets in these loads were sized .454 for my Colt New Service, whereas cylinder throats on this gun are .452.  Had to pick & choose rounds because the .454 bullets in Starline brass were a snug fit and these 4-year old rounds with Saeco #954 and 6 grains of Bullseye were not profiled in the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I expect with bullets sized to proper diameter I can improve on this, but it was fun shooting the 12” gong two-handed, standing at 100 yards, blotting it out with the front sight and getting more hits than misses!

Life is good...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Pigslayer posted this 23 February 2016

ED, You're having way too much fun!! Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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ericp posted this 23 February 2016

At 1.66” COL it would also be too long for the New Model Flattop.  Thanks for providing the diagram, I actually looked it up right after your other post to check it out in more detail!  These are RCBS 255- KT loaded 1.54” COL, there isn't a whole lot of clearance.  Please excuse the shaky one handed photo, we're dog sitting two rambunctious pups and they feel the need to be in contact with me at all times.

http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/yooper2/media/IMG_75441.jpg.html>

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Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

mckg wrote: Ed, why didn't you lap your bore and made it a .480 Achiles !? :)

http://www.leverguns.com/480/>http://www.leverguns.com/480/ Don't think so...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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mckg posted this 22 February 2016

Ed, why didn't you lap your bore and made it a .480 Achiles !? :)

http://www.leverguns.com/480/

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Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

ericp wrote: Good looking bullet. Thanks for the picture.

Eric Here is the drawing:

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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ericp posted this 22 February 2016

Good looking bullet. Thanks for the picture.

Eric

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Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

358156hp wrote: I was looking at having a Lyman 454190 hollowpointed for use in 1911s, but I do like the look of your design too.

Decisions, decisions.... Nose length from crimp groove to meplat of 45-245D is too long to chamber in an M1911 barrel, because the nose is too “fat.”  It was originally intended for the .45 Auto Rim and impinges against the rifling in a autopistol barrel unless seated deeply, thereby ignoring the crimp groove.

Overall length when crimped in the crimp groove using .45 Colt brass is 1.66” which exceeds SAAMI max. cartridge and is too long to fit in the Colt SAA or New Service.  It works fine in Schofield brass in the older guns and works fine in .45 Colt brass for New Model Ruger, Vaquero and others such as my hybrid M1917, which now has the longer 1.70” cylinder.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 22 February 2016

Ed; What an elegant way to restore that old war horse! Good show!

That should make a dandy field pistol, indeed.

Dale53

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358156hp posted this 22 February 2016

I was looking at having a Lyman 454190 hollowpointed for use in 1911s, but I do like the look of your design too.

Decisions, decisions....

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Ed Harris posted this 22 February 2016

My 230 lead HP is the Accurate 45-245D of my design, based on old Keith 1920s Belding & Mull profile, with two if its four cavities modified by Erik at http://www.hollowpointmold.com>http://www.hollowpointmold.com Imagine my .380 ACP bullet scaled up to .45!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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ericp posted this 22 February 2016

Wow, great photos of the muzzle and cylinder throats! Looking forward to the range report on the new cylinder. Which design is your 230gr HP?

Eric

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R. Dupraz posted this 21 February 2016

Thanks Ed for the post. What an interesting project. From an old pistolero, love those wheel guns and especially how this old trooper was given a new life once again.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 21 February 2016

Sorry to get back so late Ed, but no, not that bad. I was not sure if I could still see the lands before those lapping shots though. It did surprise me how well it responded to lapping so others might consider that before re-barreling if it is not as bad as your firearm.

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45 2.1 posted this 21 February 2016

At one time, a friend of mine had an old 1917 Colt that had just the memory of rifling in it (yours had great rifling in comparison). Hardball and anything else he tried just produced full keyholes at 10 yards. I have an RCBS 265 gr. RN nose meant for the 455 Webley. That bullet cast at about 8 BHN shot fifty cent piece size groups at 10 yards with it with full loads. He used it for a house gun there after. Something for others to try when they run into handguns like that.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 February 2016

It would be an NFA issue, but I have the pulloff barrel if anyone wants it to relineor whatever. Also the original pitted cylinder whch xan be striped for ejectie rid, center pin, extractor, etc. if anybody wants them.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 21 February 2016

I have an old Colt 1911 barrel from a gun that was stolen from me long ago. The rifling is really worn down. I've kept it thinking there's a way to hone it out completely smooth for use with shotshells made from 30-06 brass. Would that be an NFA issue? By the way, thanks Ed. Cool project.

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