Thoughts Needed

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  • Last Post 27 January 2021
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Bud Hyett posted this 03 October 2020

I have two Redfield 3200 scopes, 20X and 24X. I like them for their optics, repeatability, and nostalgia, but they are strictly target scopes since they are narrow in field of view. I tried the 20X on a .218 Bee for prairie dogs.  

I can get them boosted about 60% which would give 32X and 38X. Then, strictly target usage,  that is most of my shooting anyway. 

Given the above, what is any consideration I have missed? 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 03 October 2020

They will also be 60% darker. Not usually a problem on a target scope unless you are trying to use it to spot bullet holes.

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joeb33050 posted this 03 October 2020

FOV, power and eye relief are related.

See https://www.targettamers.com/guides/what-is-field-of-view/

 

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Bud Hyett posted this 03 October 2020

Is there a direct ratio between increased power and darkness in the scope. Assuming the body stays the same, then less light.

I've seen a 30X Lyman Super Targetspot that is darker than the 25X, but these scopes varied in quality and brightness from one to another. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Ross Smith posted this 04 October 2020

Is there something wrong with 20-24x? I'd leave them alone. Just fine for 100yd targets. My 24x balvar is more than adequate.

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RicinYakima posted this 04 October 2020

There is if you calculate the exit pupil size of the light coming out. If your pupil dilates like on a dark day, it is better than bright sun light. Joe link will probably let you calculate it.

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joeb33050 posted this 04 October 2020

Is there a direct ratio between increased power and darkness in the scope. Assuming the body stays the same, then less light.

I've seen a 30X Lyman Super Targetspot that is darker than the 25X, but these scopes varied from one to another. 

I think I know that  "brightness" varies as objective = front lens size varies, not as power varies-everything else being equal. .Look through a variable power scope as power is changed.

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RicinYakima posted this 04 October 2020

Joe, I have new Vortex 6 X 20 and 8 X 24. Both are darker as the power goes up. On my 80 MM objective lens Fujinon spotting scope, there is not much difference from 20X to about 45X, but it is noticeable darker 60X. Ric

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porthos posted this 04 October 2020

i have a lyman all american 10x that i had bumped up to 20x . it is now darker and i don't like that.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 04 October 2020

Compromise ... everything is a dang compromise.

depth of field ...  less at higher power if same scope aperture ...  

when i wuz shooting 50 yard 22rf BR ... although i had some 36 B&L and Weaver ... i preferred my Weaver T20 for it's better DOF ...  towards the end of our 50 or 25 score shots with the 36 'es  my eyes started to get funny ...  can't aim well when your bullseye gets blurry ...

ken

 

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Bud Hyett posted this 05 October 2020

After reading the input and thinking my way through this, it would be better to spend the money destined for the power boost to buy more practice ammunition. The advantages of more power are not there to be gained in comparison to the offsets of loss of brightness and field of view. We in the Pacific Northwest get our share of cloudy days.

I remember in the mid-1960's when a 12X was the common long distance scope power and 20X was supreme. Then the scope power race began. I am also stuck a little bit on nostalgia and these two scopes fall into that category. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Mike H posted this 05 October 2020

I have two Redfield 3200 scopes, 20X and 24X. I like them for their optics, repeatability, and nostalgia, but they are strictly target scopes since they are narrow in field of view. I tried the 20X on a .218 Bee for prairie dogs.  

I can get them boosted about 60% which would give 32X and 38X. Then, strictly target usage,  that is most of my shooting anyway. 

Given the above, what is any consideration I have missed? 
Try and find someone with a modern scope,say a Nightforce,Sightron or Leupold and have a few shots with their rifle or rifles,you may be surprised.

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Bud Hyett posted this 05 October 2020

Try and find someone with a modern scope,say a Nightforce,Sightron or Leupold and have a few shots with their rifle or rifles,you may be surprised.

Never having done this before and knowing people who have boosted scopes that later complained about the effort, I am curious and seeking advice. Sometimes what appears to be an easy answer has hidden factors - brightness is one I had missed. This query is seeking the best usage of existing resources. 

The new scopes are far superior in all criteria. The scope manufacturers are going away from fixed power scopes since the market is becoming limited. Understanding the economics of manufacturing, I am seeking to get scopes for the future.

I am currently shooting a 36X Leupold in Plain Base that is possibly the last 36X to come directly from Leupold. They replaced my older model 36X since they did not have parts. Leupold asked if I would accept a stainless demonstration model because this scope was the last one they had in stock. I gladly accepted.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Elmer posted this 25 January 2021

Bob Hagel wrote as you go up in power of spotting scopes in western hunting, over 20x is compromised by mirage. I wonder if this applies to high power scopes as well.

Finn Aagaard wrote for big game hunting scopes, he liked the Weaver K3, or even 2.5x scope since his problem was not seeing the game, but holding out to 300 yds for a clean kill.

I've done some groundhog hunting and my problem is I cannot see as well and I've got the shakes. Never had that problem when I was young...

JSM

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joeb33050 posted this 25 January 2021

How about leaving the scopes alone and getting the prairie dogs with a 16 ounce claw hammer? Arsenic? Fast lawn mower? Hand grenades? Bazooka? 

 

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Bud Hyett posted this 25 January 2021

Finn Aagaard wrote for big game hunting scopes, he liked the Weaver K3, or even 2.5x scope since his problem was not seeing the game, but holding out to 300 yards for a clean kill.

I agree simpler is better. I've developed a "Rule of Thumb" for scope power:

  • Big Game: 2X power for each 100 yards of expected yardage
  • Varmint: 4X power for each 100 yards of expected yardage.
  • Target (Benchrest): 20X minimum up to what I can afford.

  Examples:

  • Deer and coyote on my Savage 99 . 243; 6X since 300 yards is my capability with this rifle.
  • Prairie dogs with my SAKO .222 Remington Magnum; 6.5X20 since 500 yards, with a spotter helping, is the ultimate.
  • Ruger #1 .22 Hornet: 8X since 200 yards is really stretching the .22 Hornet.

Prairie dog shooting each day usually ends up around 12X or 14X, that is all that is needed to 250/300 yards. More power introduces field of view and mirage to consider. Simple crosshairs or duplex at the most, the fancy crosshairs simply clutter the view and keep you from seeing the wind and mirage.

Military Modified Scope (MSS) class restricts to 6X and some very fine scores are being shot with these rifles. This shows that people adapt well to the rules and work within them.

Note: The secret to getting prairie dogs with a hammer is driving a Dodge pickup with a Cummins Diesel. For some reason, the prairie dogs are not afraid of this noise and you can drive right up to them. I am thinking of installing speakers on my gas F-150, recording the Cummins, driving much closer and increasing my percentage of hits.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 25 January 2021

Note: The secret to getting prairie dogs with a hammer is driving a Dodge pickup with a Cummins Diesel. For some reason, the prairie dogs are not afraid of this noise and you can drive right up to them. I am thinking of installing speakers on my gas F-150, recording the Cummins, driving much closer and increasing my percentage of hits.

That is what they see everyday since 1992!  LOL

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Elmer posted this 27 January 2021

"Note: The secret to getting prairie dogs with a hammer is driving a Dodge pickup with a Cummins Diesel."

Similar to eastern wtd. They will sit there if you idle the engine, or the skittish ones will paw and snort and flag. In the rut, well they are more concerned with...

JSM

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