Just curious….is the use of a scope level another useless accessory? The influence on accuracy is often discussed when considering canting of the rifle. There are probably some tests out there demonstrating the differences on the target, with and without the canting influence.
Thanks!
Tom
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Other peoples experiences might be different but I had one I tried using and found it to be a useless distraction.
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Pat,
I get that!
My CBA BR gun has one on the scope but I seem to always forget to look at it!
My CSA Model 74 has a built-in level in the front globe sight. The important part is to have the discipline to always look and adjust your hold before each shot. This season I plan to concentrate more in the use of the front sight level. We’ll see…
Tom
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with a vernier rear sight 1 (one) line = .001", if you are out of level at 500M .001 cant = aprox. 6", meaning 6" windage there abouts
so if you are hitting rams on the shoulder and cant to the left .001 you will just miss
YMMV
Chuck
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A .001 can't seems really small. I'd imagine a bubble levels accuracy capability to not be that good.
On "standard "3-5/8 scope base spacing .001 movement of one base moves the POI 1" roughly at 100 yards.
it takes .009 to move the POI 1" with a 34" sight radius
So about 1/8" per .001 Movement
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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For load testing, I've always shot better groups using forward shoulder pressure and bipod. Rifle always on same level.
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So, how do you level a scope? I tried using the garage door frame and telephone poles. No luck
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I guess levels make a difference at very long range.
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So, how do you level a scope? I tried using the garage door frame and telephone poles. No luck
Stan of you ever figure out how to level a scope with a rifle let me know. I figure do the best you can and as long as you keep the crosshairs relatively level when shooting you're good to go. Weaver rings are the worst for me. You think you have everything square and when you tighten the rings its all cockeyed again.
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For what it’s worth, this applies to Heavy, Unlimited and Production class. Factory and military class requires a lot of prayers.
1) I hang about 20 cast bullets in an old plastic Sierra jacketed bullet box, on the 100 yard backer with a piece of yellow rope.
2) I level my old Sinclair front rest with a bubble level I mounted on front.
3) I level the rifle with a low mount bubble level mounted to the Picatinny rail portion closest to the stock to where I can easily see it.
4) Rotate the scope until the vertical crosshair aligns with the yellow (has to use yellow nylon rope as white nylon rope gives you unexplained fliers), then tighten down the rings.
The rope deal only needs to be done which a newly mounted scope. The front rest and rear bag has to be done every outing.
One side note. In all the years I’ve been shooting groups it takes 10 or so shots to settle the bag to rifle fit. You have to pay close attention's to the Picitanny bubble level during the settling in process. Which means that during the first couple groups you have to glance at the level to make sure the rifle has returned to battery. After your first or second record group things settle down.
Also always use the rubber soles bench protectors and always keep a bottle of water in your front rest box to keep water between the bench top and your front rest tripod legs as well as your rear bag. Keeping the bottom of the rear bag wet is critical (so it doesn’t move), but the applies to the front rest protective feel as things get bumped around during a match. Use magic marker to circle the pads and the rear bag to give you a visual check as the day goes on. I even mark the rear bag where the rifle butt should stop at.
You can skip that last bit about water to keep your rear bag from moving when it gets below freezing. I had a memorable Sunday morning first match once while the rear bag slid around on the ice I’d created on the bench top. Bill C
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I put the action in the vice on the mill table and use a small machinists level to adjust the rails the bolt runs on to the center of the earth. Most good scopes I have worked with will allow you to put the level on the scale under the turret and rotated the scope to level.
But in reality, I don't hold the rifle that perfectly on the bags and my shoulder. So, I loosen the scope ring and while in my most comfortable position, rotate the scope till it "appears" level to my eye. That is what works best for me.
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Stan, This is like talking to (5) lawyers and getting (7) answers. Those items you mentioned may or may not be “perfectly perpendicular to the world”. Attach the scope level to tube of the scope but don’t tighten the level. First we need two parallel surfaces on the gun’s action or the flat on an octagon barrel, etc. For the raceway on a bolt action, Weaver sells a baby level that straddles the parallel surfaces. Or possibly a small machinist’s level? Secure that device to the receiver (might be magnetic?). Then set the gun on a couple of firm but slightly flexible stationary surfaces. Maybe two stacks of sandbags. Convince yourself that you have “frozen” the gun into position, as you watch the baby level. Now rotate the scope level until it matches the little level on the rifle and tighten it. Maybe the old red MTM gun cleaning cradle could be used? This isn’t bore sighting so you won’t be looking through the scope for this exercise. The challenging task while shooting is to avoid looking at the target uprights or the vertical edge of the target paper and “twisting” the rifle/scope to get the scope’s vertical crosshair to align with one of those site items. If you do that, you MIGHT apply the same degree of cant for each shot, but….. You can also add a small level to your front rest unit. That would help get everybody “on the same page” during your set up efforts before shooting. Tom
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I must be missing something here. Is this more complicated than;
1) Leveling the rifle platform horizontally (in my case using a bubble level mounted on the Picatinny rail) and then
2) rotating the scope to align the vertical crosshair by whatever means you choose (not a telephone pole or the backer frame, something that legitimizes a gravity guaranteed 90 degrees to earth) so that the vertical crosshair is 90 degrees to your rifle platform?
My personal choice is the offset bubble level on the Pictatinny since the in line one only works with very high scope rings. And even then its not in the top 3 three things I focus on before pulling the trigger. Its used as a reference only. Keeps me in the middle of the road.
But not everyone has a Pictatinny rail. And with that observation I may have answered my own question. Sorry for assuming. Bill C.
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The bubble level is best used by those that bench shoot with the tracker stocks. A shooter that shoulders the rifle is best served with a comfortable and repeatable position no matter the can't, IMHO.
Dale Flinchum
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I use your second paragraph method Ric.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Wow! I'm finding these posts very interesting. I agree you need to get the rifle level first. Will start there. Tom, don't worry about no paragraphs. They don't grade us on grammar or punctuation.
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I first mount the rifle barrel in a padded vise, level action with a line level across scope bases, next mount scope with loose rings, put line level on scope caps adjust level
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Muley: I tried that and found out my scope ring bottoms weren't the same, or at least sat on the reciever differently. My question is how do you get the rifle action/stock square to the world in the first place.I had a devil of a time doing this with my new MTR.
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I have also remove bolt and place offset level across magazine cot and then across bases. works if bases are mounted properly
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I don't mean to disrespect anybody, but no level bubble ever gets close to my rifles or scopes. I try to rotate the scope until one cross wire looks to be vertical when mounting. Before firing the first shot I see that a comfortable position results in the horizontal wire is more or less parallel with the top or bottom of the target. I try to remember to see if it if still parallel once in a while during the following shots. But with my diminishing number of brain cells I am sometimes too busy worrying more about the wind or whether I am applying uniform shoulder pressure. I think that, at 200 yards and under, this doesn't cost me as long as the intersection of the cross wired are where they are supposed to be when the shot is fired. But of course, I may be wrong.
John
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