Resizing bullet question - 45-70 to suit .454 Casull, for Rossi LA

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  • Last Post 02 October 2022
SkinnerD posted this 01 October 2022

Hi

I have a qty of 400gn Lyman #457643 Powder Coated Flat Point bullets. Designed for the 45-70 Govt I believe but I don't happen to own that calibre. I do have a Rossi 92 Puma in .454 Casull. While my research indicates the optimum bullet weight for the Casull is around 325gn, Hogdon load data goes to 395gn.  The Lyman #457643 I have mic at average of .460in dia.  I have a .452in Lee sizing die.  I suspect a bullet at .453 or .454 will be fine in the Puma and also that .452 will be a big ask to resize the .460s down to in one pass. This is new territory for me so input welcome. I'm a bit nervous about loading them at .460in with possible pressure increases. 

Of course I could just trade them off for something closer in dia to what I think I need.  But if it is reasonably feasible to size them down I can get a Lee Sizing die at .454 as either a shootable dia or an intermediary step. 

How practical is it to do this? Issues?

thanks in advance

John - New Zealand

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 01 October 2022

you really should do a lead upset ( or cerrosafe ) ...  image of your chamber neck and throat ...   if it happens to be an actual 0.454 or larger i bet you could size down your castings in one pass...... with most bench type presses and the Lee sizer die. 

if the throat takes a larger bullet dont worry about it having to swage down a little to the groove diamer in front of the throat ... size it for the throat.

also consider your twist rate, velocity to stabilize the heavier bullet ...

let us know how it goes ...

ken

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JeffinNZ posted this 01 October 2022

Fill the grooves with lube and run them into the Lee push through.  Will be no problem.  I size .280 bullets to .268 for my Carcano this way and they shoot great.

Cheers from New Zealand

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SkinnerD posted this 01 October 2022

Ok great. Will give it a go.

I have tried to buy Cerrosafe in NZ but does not seem to be available, or even heard of by the gunshops

I believe all the Rossi Pumas are 10 Twist

John - New Zealand

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SkinnerD posted this 01 October 2022

Mmm have to write it as one:thirty twist or I get an emoji lol

John - New Zealand

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axman posted this 01 October 2022

I’ve done with cast .460” in one pass. Also I sized base first in die so it didn’t deform the bullet base. Pushed on the nose of bullet . My brother use to size 300grn jacketed .458” to.452” for his Freedom Arms .454 Worked fine.

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Aaron posted this 01 October 2022

Sizing these down 8 thou to .452 will remove the lubricant grooves and elongate the bullet which is already over maximum weight for the cartridge. I think you have already answered your question in your initial post. Sell them or melt them and recast them.

A 340gr bullet in the Casull case is about the practical limit for this caliber anyway. Sure you can cram a 700gr bullet in there if you desire but you will have no powder capacity or be able to chamber the cartridge in anything resembling small-arms firearms. The rate of twist in the Rossi will be the nominal twist for a 45 caliber cartridge of common bullet weight - probably a 265-300 grain bullet.

Melt them or, here is an idea, get yourself a 45-70 to properly launch the bullets!  applause

 

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SkinnerD posted this 01 October 2022

Thanks. They are powder coated.

325gn-340gn certainly appears to be the sweetspot for 454 Casull. That doesn't mean heavier does not have a use or a place. Hogdon offer data for 395gn for the Casull so there must be some demand out there. Being an inquisitive sort and having these 400s on hand I am happy to try them and see how they go.

Its not that I don't have or can't get .452 dia bullets in a more desirable weight. One of the things that interests me is what is possible even if its not optimal. One of the learnings of the last couple of years is that there are times when what you really want is just not available. I like to know a bit about what I can and what I can't do long before I might need to do - if that makes sense.

On the basis of the input so far in this thread, thank you all, I plan to lube the bullets with Lees Alox and push them through my Lee .452 sizing die, butt first. Just to see if I can.

I also plan to cup the nose which will bring them back below 400gn but won't really change the length which is the issue for stability, not the weight.

While 5gn above the datum weight of 395gn for the Hogdon is neither here nor there, loosing some weight from cupping won't hurt.

If it works well enough, I will do 20 of them for enough to run a valid test. If the results are really mediocre I'll trade the remaining off to a mate and make an entry in my load notebook accordingly.

Finally I have no plans to add a 45-70 to the collection. The Casull is already enough gun for me and I don't have access to anything like your Bruin or Elk here down under. Wapiti are about as big as it gets in NZ on 4 feet and feral hogs are the most dangerous.

Thanks again for the responses. John

John - New Zealand

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 02 October 2022

?  sizing base first to keep bases in best shape ? 

oh oh, good subject for test article .

i have always thought that ... at least with a decent fit on the push rod ... that nose first would tend to swage the base into a more nearly perfect base ... and any nose taper would make the bullet enter the die with less chance of any distortion ...

hmmm ... 

ken

 

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JeffinNZ posted this 02 October 2022

Here you go Ken.

 

Sizing - How Much is Possible? | Cast Bullet Association | Online Forum | Bullet Casting Forum

Cheers from New Zealand

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Fitzpatrick posted this 02 October 2022

I size down a 405 gr. that cast at .458 to .454 for my 460 S&W  And my 45 Raptor both ar 16 in barrels but the shoot great , I powder coat but if you wanted to lube the grease groove there is way more than enough room left and as far as elongating it not enough to make a difference 

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SkinnerD posted this 02 October 2022

Thks Jeff, I read your blog. Re the lube used, inassume this a hard wax type lube used? Will Lee's Liquid Alox do the same job you think?

John - New Zealand

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