how do we........

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Ross Smith posted this 2 weeks ago

Right now in Utah hunters are sighting in their modern muzzleloaders, at up to $5 per shot. I try to get some to cast their own and either paper patch or grease lube. But no, not a single convert yet. The same with recreational target shooters. Most don't-won't reload let alone switch to cast bullets. I've even offered to do the work for them. I do have one friend in town that has switched to casting his own, but can't get him to join the CBA.

 

So how do we get our message out?

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Aaron posted this 2 weeks ago

I don't know that we can anymore. We have been branded and labeled by a socialist media as domestic terrorists, gun loving murderers, rednecks, racists, and other vile things - all of which are not true. Look at the advertising alone in the American Rifleman. What used to be a father and son at the reloading bench promoting the hobby has been replaced by the tattooed, bearded, "operator" promoting firepower and machismo.

The younger generation has no time for hobby. They want immediate gratification through an online purchase on Amazon. Have the bullets shipped. No casting for them. Those that decided to try to cast gave up when they boogered something up and leaded their barrels horribly with an incorrect alloy. They learned their hobby through online "experts" whilst doing the TicToc dance.

At the range, I am a dinosaur. When I load cast bullets into my M44 Moisin Nagant, I can see the other shooters grinning and cringing. Those who do ask and I inform them that with a proper alloy and reduced pressure, the barrel will not be leaded, smile and walk away in apparent disbelief.

We no longer have any prime time sportsman shows on national television. The Olympic shooting events are NEVER televised. There are no more intramural school shooting teams or leagues. Shooting and all things shooting related are now classified as terrorist activity engaged in only by domestic terrorists or radical right wing supporters.

Tools of the trade are only now becoming available again on the market but at significantly higher prices. Reloading now, like SCUBA, is becoming an upper middle-class activity. My LGS used to carry all kinds of reloading powders. My last can of Unique was purchased for $15.99 at Scheels. The other day I ordered 2 pounds of Unique from MidwayUSA, one of the only online places to get it. At $119.45 for two pounds, that works out to $60 per pound. Online purchases mean shipping, hazmat fee, tax, and of course the product charge. You can safely assume those will be the last two pounds of powder I buy online.

Prices like these will SEVERELY restrict who can reload. The loss of wheel weight lead will restrict those who cast bullets. I have no desire to cast zinc bullets or pay exorbitant prices for bullet alloy shipped to my doorstep. If you are one of the few fortunate people who live next to a powder factory or a lead mine, good for you. Most of us have to have it shipped to our country estate. 

The cost of goods is one thing but I do not sense the willingness to "roll your own" in the younger generations. They want to buy it and they want it right now.

Now I will relate something funny. I have decided to roll my own English cartridges like those highlighted in Brett Gibbons book The English Cartridge. I had to order 100% rag paper online and did so. The description on the paper never mentioned the fact that this very expensive paper was graph paper. Now my 1853 Enfield paper cartridges are made with 100% rag graph paper. I can't wait to get these on the range and explain to those that are interested that in 1860, the English used graph paper for their cartridges! innocent

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

Not disagreeing with anything Aaron says, but my perspective is that almost all people under the age of 50 want to be looking at an electronic screen and being entertained or "shooting" outside. Shooting means buying loaded ammo on the credit card and banging it away as fast as possible. 

And the expense of money and time to reload, especially cast bullets, is not getting better. I have a machinist acquaintance, who says he can work two hours overtime and make enough to buy 200 rounds of 9MM and shoot all afternoon, why would I reload my own?

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NH_Jim posted this 2 weeks ago

 One method that has worked for me it to demonstrate the destructive power of a muzzleloader on an everyday item such as a plasma TV.  A muzzleoader will blow a big hole through a plasma TV. (I know ... can't shoot items on the range ...). As you know a high velocity round will go through most items with little fanfare.  A lead slug from a muzzleoader ... Bam ... big hole - lost of mess.  That sales pitch works.  From there you lead them by the hand down the road of muzzleoading and then casting.  All of the people I got into casting did so because the big bore slugs are not available much anymore.  It takes a year or two of mentoring but they get hooked. Casting bullets under .50 cal come later, once they are into casting.  One person at a time.  Just my two cents.

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Ed Harris posted this 2 weeks ago

At the risk of getting political, the brainwashing of our youth, the destruction of work ethic, developing a dependent welfare class, driving instant gratification while supply issues and pure greed drive the cost of shooting beyond the means of working class people is the plan. Discourage hunting and shooting so that the young won't carry the torch. Then wait for the Baby Boomers to die off and there will be no one left who cares. The young will suck the government teat and inherit their Socialist utopia. No further comment along these lines. Dave delete if this crossed the line.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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JeffinNZ posted this 2 weeks ago

I think the point is being missed here. 

Why would those casual shooters have any interest in the CBA?  They clearly have the means to buy ammo.  You can't instill curiosity in those that are not curious.  Further, that they don't want to pursue our interests is no failing on their part.  

Kind of akin to knocking those that drink beer but don't brew it themselves.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Waleone posted this 2 weeks ago

 Ed, sadly you are 100% correct!

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Ross Smith posted this 2 weeks ago

Thanks for the replies guys, you are all correct. @00 rounds of 9mm won't last all afternoon. Just today 2 young fellows showed up at the range and went thru several hundred rounds semi auto in half an hour. At least they picked up their brass. 

The obvious group to target is the inline ML guys. But in my experience they won't even listen.

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Little Debbie posted this 2 weeks ago

What Ed said is true; tax and regulate the shooting sports to a point that prices a lot of people out of the pastime. If I wasn’t reloading with components that I acquired over many years I wouldn’t be shooting much today. Until the recent increase in supply and lower cost of .22 RF I haven’t been shooting much of it for a couple of years. This used to be a staple of family gatherings along with shooting clays pigeons. The price of shotgun shells has made reloading 12 ga trap loads economically sensible again. With the constant media barrage that guns are bad, hunting is destroying the planet and lead in any form is lethal to humans it’s no wonder young people don’t take casting up. It’s seen as time consuming and dangerous.

Add the ignoramasus’ blaring on the internet that shooting lead will cause a Glock to explode and by extension all lead bullets are bad, state laws against use of lead in hunting ammunition etc it makes me wonder why scrap lead and molds are in such high demand. Hoarders I guess.

Finding a place to shoot has gotten harder too. All the informal ranges in the county I grew up in are gone. I have land to shoot on. If I had to go to a gun club or public or private range I wouldn’t shoot much. The quality of the individual populating these places has gone way down. The knowledge base is poor/false/ ignorant thanks to the internet. Firearms handling safety is poor and it makes me nervous. You see all this at gun shows and gun stores too. My kids reload but don’t cast. I’ve had many friend that reload but none that cast. This has changed since I started shooting in CBA matches. People at the range I usually shoot at show no real interest in cast bullet shooting or competition. They just want us old farts to get off the range so they can shoot their AR 15s

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

Our local rifle and pistol club, second oldest active NRA club, is in transition. They no longer support Hi-Power, Bullseye, Benchrest, Cowboy. What they do have is a 100 active members who want to shoot two kinds of black pistol games; one is speed shooting falling plates and one where you jump around a shoot things ten feet away. 

They are almost all reloaders with Dillon presses, but buy components and don't cast. The reason is time. None of these guys are over about 45 and in the middle of their working lives. Don't give up on them, as they will have some become casters at some point in their lives. I hope. 

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sluggo posted this 2 weeks ago

You would think that the higher cost of ammo would increase the number of people that reload. It might have something to do with that four letter word so prevalent in todays society "lazy".

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

No, I think the four letter word is "time". There is tremendous pressure on people under 40 to be "social" every spare minute. 

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Aaron posted this 2 weeks ago

I think the point is being missed here. Why would those casual shooters have any interest in the CBA?  They clearly have the means to buy ammo.  You can't instill curiosity in those that are not curious.  Further, that they don't want to pursue our interests is no failing on their part.  Kind of akin to knocking those that drink beer but don't brew it themselves.

 

Jeff, I believe that actually IS the point. Why lower curiosity in the art of casting/reloading in the shooting community at large with the younger folks? The percentage of shooters who begin casting and reloading is dropping below a sustainable level. Your beer analogy is accurate but I always enjoyed tasting beer brewed by home brewers and appreciated their work. Brewing beer is not my "thing" if you will, but those who do has remained a constant percentage of the population - I think. We shooters on the other hand are seeing diminishing numbers of competitive shooters, casters, and dedicated handloaders.

It's hard to put in words of course and is better discussed at the club house rather than in a forum. Alas, keep brewing, casting, and loading away! Man, that latest article in Handloader magazine on the 300 Rook has me wondering.

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sergeant69 posted this 2 weeks ago

wish i could shoot pistol "all afternoon" and only use up 200 rds! especially in a modern semi auto.

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Lee Guthrie posted this 2 weeks ago

JEFF, maybe exactly what you said.  I LOVE to brew my own, preferably all grain.  Besides enjoying the end product, I get the same satisfaction from the home brewed beer as I do from my cast bullet handloads.

Unfortunately, I am an aging Boomer, and I fear that Ed is correct.  frown

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hporter posted this 2 weeks ago

I think another factor limiting the interest in reloading is the high cost of components. Primers and powder are very expensive at the moment.  And not necessarily readily available.

We cast, so the cost of projectiles can be mitigated. But someone new to the hobby would have to pay dearly for factory projectiles, if they can find them.

It must be difficult right now for a young person or a person of meager means, to try to budget for a reloading press, a scale, and dies and with prices of the equipment such as they are.  Not to mention a melting furnace, molds and sizers if they were to try out casting their own.

I joined the CBA to support an organization that supports a hobby I love.  I don't shoot in the competitions, but the wealth of information on this forum and in the Fouling Shot is well worth the cost of the membership alone.

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John Alexander posted this 2 weeks ago

I agree with a lot, but not all, said so far. But to add just a bit to soften this sympathy of gloom there are places when CB shooting is growing and the new shooters aren't all drawing social security.  Region 3 and 4 have both added matches and active shooters in the last few years.  We have also had more new young (under 65 but several under 35) enter our nationals in the last 4 or 5 years than in any similar period I can remember in the last thirty.

This is not to say that black blasters and auto pistols at bayonet range aren't  what most shooters seem to want to shoot now and we have areas where we have lost CBA shooters and matches. At our local club/public range where I shoot and serve as RSO In five years I have only seen one shooter using cast bullets that he cast and only a few using the store bought variety in rifles and not many in pistols either. The CBA recruitment cards I supply a few gun shops don't disappear very fast.

As for the young generation going to hell, old Greeks and Romans, and every set of old people since, have been saying and writing that for at least the last 2,500 years. Funny how our grandkids seem to be OK but others are all lazy and no good. I think the young will be OK. Whether the corruption and gouging in the primer supply line will be eliminated any time soon is another question.

John

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Tom Acheson posted this 2 weeks ago

Some different observations.

 

When I joined (1978) the club, we had a self imposed limit of (125) members. Over time that limit has progressively grown. Today’s limit is (1500). Despite that growth, seldom do I go to the range and see very many people shooting. We have (4) positions on our 200-meter range (where I spend most of my time), I am usually alone or share it with only one other shooter. Our 20-position 100-yard range is the most popular range but is never full to capacity. On my drive home I often ask myself where are some other shooters?

 

I hear about muzzle loader shooters using our club but I have never seen one. If a new person witnesses a muzzle loader in action, it’s not surprising to form the somewhat incorrect conclusion that the process is slow….because it is!…..I’m not interested in bullet casting if that’s what I do with them…..they need more data points to unfreeze the muzzle loader images.

 

We are open to the public on weekends during the summer and then starting in early October we are open daily for public use (for a fee). Quite a few of our customers are sighting in their deer hunting rifles. Want to feel a bit nervous about shooting behavior? Try being an RSO during public use!

 

But there is hope. Contrary to what has been noted, I watched the biathlon (skiing and shooting) during the last Winter Olympics. The event was televised several times during span of all of the events. The fastest growing high school sport in our state (Minnesota) is trap shooting. Our club has three trap fields and we schedule in (5) different schools during the spring and into summer. And…our newest CBA match shooter is (13) years old.

 

Expressions such as….never….no more….all things….only promote negativity and convey an absence of hope or positiveness. Despite being a “boomer” the old phrase “all things in moderation” can see some application here. Yes, prices for most things have risen. What have our salaries and paychecks experienced? They too have risen. It’s up to us to work on the conversion process and even though the youth endanger themselves by constantly staring at what’s in their hand and not paying attention to things around them (ex. traffic), it is possible to get their attention instead of frequently criticizing them.

 

It takes work, coaching and patience and not expect to convert small groups of people in one sitting.

 

Tom

 

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Idahocaster posted this 2 weeks ago

I'm 45, so I expect that puts me on the younger end of the CBA membership spectrum. I started casting about 12 years ago. I had a great shooting and casting mentor (my grandpa) who introduced me to reloading and casting. Without his encouragement and help I probably wouldn't have ever started. Now I admit I am odd for my generation. I don't care for semi autos, rifles or handguns. Give me a revolver, lever gun, or bolt action any day. Point is, we need to be willing to share. Not everyone will be interested, but some will.

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

I love to share may experiences with bullet casting, until their eyes roll back into their heads.big_grin

 

My shooting buddy, Joe and I were practicing for postal matches about 20 years ago. The guy at the end of the line was shooting jacketed bullets in some type of fancy new hunting rifle. While he was scoping out our targets, he introduced himself and could not believe we were shooting mod-iron military rifles with smaller groups than he was doing with a $1000 outfit. Joe let him shoot his 1891 Mauser and ammo and the new guy shot his smallest group of the day. He ended up shooting cast bullets for ten years and is a loyal CBA member.

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Fitzpatrick posted this 2 weeks ago

I have several friends that are trying to get into reloading but with the supply issue of components they get discouraged right off the bat and won't even try locating powder or primers then when I tell them about some I have found their reply is I will get it next week to which my reply is you'll be too late.

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