Mold suggestion for a M722 in 222 Magnum

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Last Post 12 September 2013

Standard Member

LBD posted this 04 September 2013

I'm looking at options for my very first .22 caliber mold to be used with a M722 in 222 Mag and am wondering if I should stay away from aluminum blocks given the tendency for aluminum to cool quickly. Does anyone here use NOE 4+ cavity molds in this caliber? The ROT I'm dealing with is 1:14".

For the record, I always preheat my molds on a hot plate and like to “drown” them with my Rowell ladles. In other words, I'm pretty confident I can make good tiny bullets from a 2 cavity ferrous mold; however, I'd like to get more bullets per casting session. There's the 4 cavity SAECO #221 that costs a pretty penny, but it's nose profile doesn't impress me for varminting purposes.

Now there's the whole other issue of what bullet design to go for with respect to the .222 Mag. I'd like to cast a 55-60 grain bullet with a meplat for shorter range varminting. I also have a couple hundred pounds of type metal that's a bit harder than Linotype.

LBD

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23 Comments

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Standard Member

Wayne S posted this 05 September 2013

I think you are going to run into problems with the 1-14 twist and that weight range. I have several NOE .225 5 cavity molds, per heating via a hot plate and running the melt a little warmer that I would for 7MM or 30 cal. molds I have no problem. Check the NOE site on Cast Boolits.com. He may have a a 40 gn. {+ -} .225 mold in stock

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Standard Member

LBD posted this 05 September 2013

Wayne S wrote: Check the NOE site on Cast Boolits.com. He may have a a 40 gn. {+ -} .225 mold in stock A 40-ish grain bullet?

I was planning to run the 55-60 grain bullets at least as fast as a 22WMR. How does the RCBS 225-055 compares in length to a 50 grain Sierra Varminter?

LBD

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Standard Member

Wayne S posted this 05 September 2013

My NOE version of the RCBS 225-55 is .660” long. Run that through some of the twist / stability programs

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CBA Member

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 September 2013

velocity doesn't have as much influence on stability as twist and bullet length ...in my 222 with 14 twist ....i could never get adequate stability with ideal 225462 ( ~55 gr )although round/short nose and 2000 fps .... instability about the same from 1200 to 2000 fps ...

my 224438 ( 40 gr ) was more accurate but very wind sensitive... i finally limited serious shots to 50 yards, and went to a 7mm with a 9 twist for playing with cast at longer ranges. ken

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onondaga posted this 05 September 2013

This mold is in stock now and I think it would be a good choice, I use it in .223:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/790896/lyman-2-cavity-bullet-mold-225646-22-caliber-225-diameter-55-grain-semi-point-gas-check

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/L225646.jpg.html>

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Standard Member

Wayne S posted this 05 September 2013

Gary, That “puppy” looks a little long for a 1-14 twist bbl.

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 05 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3610>Wayne S

Cast bullets aren't as sensitive to twist rates as jacketed and the formulas are much less relevant. Sizing down and paper patching will make them very much less sensitive too.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD

If you cast these in #2 alloy and size the largest that will chamber, likely .225", and tumble lube, They will probably shoot great. If you paper patch, use pure lead and no gas check for highest velocity.

Gary

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Standard Member

LBD posted this 06 September 2013

Let's take this approach...

Show me your best groups with nominal 55 grain gas checked bullets at 2000+ fps from 1:14” twist guns. That will more than likely limit the discussion to 222, 222Mag, 22-250 and perhaps the 225Win and 220 Swift.

The .223 just confuses the issue because I never know whether the gun is set up with a 1:12", 1:9” or something even quicker.

Please include the range(s) groups were shot.

Thanks, LBD

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 06 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD,

"Show me your best groups with nominal 55 grain gas checked bullets at 2000+"

OK, these are from 1:12 twist NEF Ultra Varmint .223 Rem at well over 2,000 fps:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/223Rem.jpg.html>http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/50yds.jpg.html>

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CBA Member

.22-10-45 posted this 06 September 2013

Hello, LBD. Don't be afraid of that SAECO #221. It shoots great in a .222 Rem. Ruger No.1 with 145” twist..7/16” groups at 100yds.

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CBA Member

delmarskid1 posted this 06 September 2013

I shoot the Saeco 221 in my 218 bee Ruger no. 1. It works in the 14” twist with a faster gas checked load but gets tippy when I go plain based. A friend used to cast a Lyman 45g out of lino-type in his .222 mag. It blew starlings all to pieces. Ish is gone now and he took his loads with him.

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Standard Member

Wayne S posted this 06 September 2013

Well one think is for certain, you won't know till you try, PM me your Add and I'll send you a few to test for stability. 225-55 FN and MX-3-55's. lubed and sized .2255

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Standard Member

LBD posted this 06 September 2013

Wayne S wrote: Well one think is for certain, you won't know till you try, PM me your Add and I'll send you a few to test for stability. 225-55 FN and MX-3-55's. lubed and sized .2255 I appreciated the offer but the MX-3 looks like an odd duck with its tapered driving bands... only one of which is groove diameter. What do you shoot the MX-3 from and how many lube grooves do you fill?

The 55 grain bullet that NOE catalogs that looks like RCBS 22-055 is the one that interests me. How difficult is it too get complete fill out and plus or minus just a tenth or two of a grain from the average weight bullet.

LBD

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 06 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD:

Cast bullets matched .1-.2 grains is unnecessary for the best match shooting of cast bullets. Cast match bullets are generally matched to 1% of total weight, for a 55 gr bullet that would be a .55 gr weight span for matched bullets to fall into.

Getting closely matched cast bullets takes very consistent casting methods. The first things to work the hardest on are:

1) consistent mold and pot temp, the historically taught standard is pot 100 deg F hotter than alloy fluidus point and mold 100 deg F lower than alloy fluidus point as the ideal temperature range to target for casting 2) consistent flow rate from pot spout or ladle 3) consistent stream length from pot or ladle to sprue gate hole 4) consistent puddle size poured on top of sprue plate 5) consistent mold handle grip force 6) clean molds that close and open easily 7) not adding sprues back into pot while casting, add when pot is low with new metal 8) consistent pour till sprue cut time for a clean cut that does not elevate sprue plate 9) sprue cut timing that allows a gloved hand for opening and no hot metal smudge on sprue plate. Correct timing will not need a baton to cut sprues cleanly with no smudge.

Doing all these things to perfection will yield about a +- 1.0 grain consistency to a 55 gr cast bullet batch. Match and sort from there if you wish.

However, I believe finding a load charge sweet spot of accuracy is much clearer to see with completely unmatched by weight bullets. Unmatched bullets will help locate the sweet spot charge more graphically to see clearly and identify the sweet spot. The sweet spot should be broad enough for unmatched bullets to shoot accurately or it is likely that you really haven't found the sweet spot at all.

Incidentally, all the bullets in the 3 targets I posted above are not weight matched, but just visually checked for flaws before size/check. My sweet spot is broad and weight matched bullets do not improve group size at all for me.

Gary

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Match Director

linoww posted this 07 September 2013

Order the NOE Eagan MX3-22 55g clone like Wayne says.its made from my sample.I find it shoots better than most 22 designs i have tried.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 07 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=807>linoww

I checked your link, that looks like a great design, especially the FN for game. Now, I want one of those too, Thanks !!

Gary

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Standard Member

LBD posted this 07 September 2013

linoww wrote: Order the NOE Eagan MX3-22 55g clone like Wayne says.its made from my sample.I find it shoots better than most 22 designs i have tried.

George

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=310&osCsid=ovdp5ov6i967r6s7c6na40hcu2>http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/productinfo.php?cPath=24&productsid=310&osCsid=ovdp5ov6i967r6s7c6na40hcu2 Do you have any targets shot with the MX3 and a 14” twist barrel that you'd be willing to share? How does it compare to RCBS 225-055 in terms of accuracy potential? Are these lil' bullets a pain in the backside to cast if one is a stickler for accuracy? I do have the option of stepping up to .243.

LBD

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 07 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD

The .243 is not any more or any less difficult to get shooting well with cast than .22 .

It is the fit of your bullet that is most important and the harder the alloy is the more critical the fit is. The bullet shoild fit the chamber throat with a sliding fit upon chambering and be the same size or .0005” larger than the throat to have the highest accuracy potential.

The most definitive way to identify the bullet diameter that will be best for your specific rifle is to do a chamber casting with chamber casting alloy and measure the throat. Somebody else's measurements are generally useless for your rifle. Here is an excellent, inexpensive chamber casting alloy; It is reusable, so one ingot is a lifetime supply:

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/chamber_casting_alloy.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/chambercastingalloy.htm

LBD, you do sound serious about wanting to do well. This is the best way I know of to do that. You may even have to custom hone a bullet sizing die like I do with my Lee push through bullet sizing dies to get the right size from your castings.

Gary

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Standard Member

LBD posted this 08 September 2013

Gary,

SAAMI drawings usually get me in the ballpark, then I can refine when necessary. This is how I discovered the optimum diameter for my '06 and .358 Winchester which will both shoot clover leaves at 100 yards from clean barrels at 1700+ fps.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5164>onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD

The .243 is not any more or any less difficult to get shooting well with cast than .22 . Actually, my question pertained to the relative difficulty of casting 55-ish grain bullets vs. 90+ grain bullets. It's got to be less difficult to cast consistently accurate 90+ grain bullets than it is 55 grain bullets just because of the difference in volume of hot metal flowing into the mold blocks. I'd much rather cast .44s but I'd much rather shoot 30s.

LBD

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Standard Member

onondaga posted this 08 September 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7620>LBD:

If your skill level good and you apply the list of 1-9 hints I posted in response #15 above, the .22s are no more difficult to cast well at all.

However, I've read many loaders complain that handling the little 22s and applying gas checks, holding the bullets for seating, etc. is very difficult for them. If you are unaccustomed to handling small items or just have ham-hands, you will have difficulty; but it can be conquered with practice and deliberate hand movements while looking closely at what you are doing.

You mention 44s are easy for you. That is a trap. They are not any easier if you do them well. Then, 22s won't be any more difficult if you learn to do them well. It is just a size change, the casting is the same.

If you really have problems, read my posts on Swirl Casting.

Gary, Retired Casting Analyst