winchester highwall

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  • Last Post 22 February 2009
Hard1 posted this 01 January 2009

Hi

I have been trying for a year to get this highwall to shoot better than four in groups I have tried smokeless 4227 18 gr. the best so far. aa5744 20 gr up to 23 swiss 3f 39gr to 45 swiss 2f swiss 1.5 not bad but light loads of 3f best so far pyrodex p shoots good why ? I am useing fire formed starline brass long lenght .264 gr. lyman bullets they shoot the best out of this rifle. I have saved almost all the targets I will have five out of ten with the holes connected and the other five all over the paper that seems to be the norm tried .30 wads .60 wads different lubes that seems to make no difference graded the bullets before loading all within 1/2 gr. of each other real light loads with heavy bullets are the best so far. loading with lyman dies no neck tension, no resizing useing standard rifle primers tried mag primers made no difference. Iam frustrated I have fired a thousand rounds also tried saeco tapered bullet they were worse also tried 4895 21gr. that was not to bad with light .255 gr. lyman bullets but never a ten shot 2in. grouplike what i read about. also I run a patch down the barrel between shots with black. Iam useing peep sights vernier rear and globe front.

Any ideas would be welcome

Bob

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JetMech posted this 01 January 2009

One thing to check is if the forend is touching the front of the action. My Browning in 45-70 was throwing flyers and that fixed it.

I shoot a H&R target in 38-55 and 3F seems about right for the bore size. 2F for anything 40 cal and larger.

You don't have any neck tension. Are the  bullets hard on the rifling when chambered? Even though BP is easy to ignite, I've found neck tension about .002 and/or bullets engraved a couple thousanths works best for me. EDIT: reduced neck tension to .001 and group sizes reduced by 30%.

Aother thing to look at are primers. The old days, primers were markedly lower brisance. Modern primers sometimes cause problems by disrupting the powder column. That's why some folks prefer pistol primers. Myself, I'm using CCI BR2 in my 38-55.

What's your rate of twist? A 1 in 15 barrel will handle 350 gn bullets. The Lyman 260s and other bullets in that range were designed for the lever action rifles. They shoot fine in my 1 in 18 H&R, and should in yours, but you might benefit from a heavier bullet.

What's your groove size? Most Winchesters and Marlins run around .375, while the H&R and some of the C Sharps run .380. That's one of the biggest problems with the 38-55, lack of standardization. Before Winchester started chambering them around the turn of the century, .380 bores and 2.120 cases were the norm. Then Winchester went to .375 bore and 2.080 cases. So most cast bullets rattle down my barrel. I've been waiting on a group buy on another forum on the old Ideal 335 gn bullet that casts .380 or larger.

Let me know if this hodge podge of ideas helps at all.

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Hard1 posted this 01 January 2009

Hi Bill

The barrel is 1 in 18- bore If my memory serves me is .376 and grooves .379 I have been useing the long brass with a little bullet out to wind up about .20 from rifleing the flyers are whats getting me almost all the targets I go back and look at half or less are almost in the same hole the rest of the ten shots are all over the paper I just can't figure it out.

Regards

Bob

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Hard1 posted this 01 January 2009

Hi Bill

I will check the foreend I have had it off before seems they have it set up not to touch the barrel at all so that would make sense.

thanks again

Bob

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Mnshooter posted this 03 January 2009

What is you alloy? Some are a little fussy about alloy. Lube can be fussy also with black especially after a few shots. Most competitors with the 40's are shooting bullets pushing about 400 grains. Some use large pistol primers with Swiss and Mag rifle for GOEX.

Mnshooter

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Hard1 posted this 03 January 2009

Hi mn shooter the rifle is a 38-55 and has been giving me fits for a year the alloy is 30 to 1 tried lots of lubes spg works well but pricey going to buy a box of 300 gr. bullets see if that helps have been shooting 250 gr. lyman cast and 264 gr. cast they shoot the best. I have been told for the last year that the 1 in 18 twist will not stabalize 300 gr. bullets going to order a box and try them that is about the only thing I have not tried. regards Bob

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JetMech posted this 03 January 2009

Try the 300 grn bullets. I know a guy who shoots 330 gn from a 1 in 18 barrel routinely, and he's shot them out to 1000 yds with no stabilization problems.

One thing, though. You say the 264 Lyman shoots many in the same hole, but alot of flyers. Inconsistant ignition could be the culprit. With the bullet you have, I'd try, if you're using Goex 3F, compressing the powder .25 to .3 with some neck tension and the bullet touching or engraving slightly on the lands. If using Swiss, less compression but same for neck tension and seating depth. The other thing you might look at primers.

Whatever you try, keep us posted.

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Hard1 posted this 03 January 2009

Hi Bill

I think the inconsistent ignition might have merit also  You and a couple others have mentioned having the bullet actually touching the lands I have been told that is bad ? I have been shooting it back about .20 to 30 thousands guessing Next batch will try touching the lands see if that makes a difference this is slow going for me as I have to drive 100 miles each way just to get to a 100 yd. range that is overcrowded with people blasting away with ak's and ar 15's It is a average 16 hour day by the time I get back get the guns and cases clean and put away.

Regards

Bob

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JetMech posted this 03 January 2009

Your all the way down in Marathon? Where do you have to go to shoot?

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Hard1 posted this 03 January 2009

Hi Bill

Its called trail glades range in south miami at dade corners it's within 1/10 mile of being 100 miles from my yard depending on whether I ride the bike or take the truck the odometer is a little different on both. I shoot there at least once a month at the miami muzzleloaders monthly match. Which I won the cartridge division last month with a 45/90 97 out of a possible 100 placed me third overall two of our members are state champions muzzloading.

Regards

Bob

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mike morrison posted this 13 January 2009

howdy hard 1 i too have a winchester hiwall in 38-55. i was lead to believe the twist was not fast enough for heavy bullets. some folks said the opsit so i ordered a double cavity mould. rcbs378-312-bps this is a plain base pointed bullet with four generous lub grooves. i developed my load at 50yds as that was convenient. i have shot it to 660 yds with good success. hiting a ram at 500m is no problem but sometimes they do not fall. just leaves a white spot. back to the issue. this bullet drops from the mold at 378 with my alloy that is indoor range lead bhn 11-12. this bullet weighs 325gr w/o lube. my load is 1325fps. with smokeless. i use a .030 card under the bullet. my blackpowder load is 42gr schutzen 2f and compressed enough to seat the bullet to where it just engages the riflings. both loads will shoot one ragged hole at 50yds. i have not shot groups at a longer distance. this gun has no freebore and i have to seat the bullet to the first driving band. when shooting black i use a blowtube. i might add, i have installed good quality longrange sights. i guess i rambled a bit but hope i got all the info. hope this is of help to you. the lee 379-250-rf shoots well but i have not worked with it a lot. good luck mike

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Hard1 posted this 14 January 2009

Thanks Mike I have some 300gr. bullets on order will try them out. Bob

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giorgio de galleani posted this 14 January 2009

I have a 38-55 high wall uberti replica. Long octagonal heavy barrel.

What make is yours?

Mine shoots great with saeco 250 gas check,rcbs 250 gas check and Lyman300 plain base,all with 379 bullets in soft range scrap alloy.

We used serious loads of vihtavuori 110 or

I'll have to try some LBT 300 grainers,GC.

A friend owns a similar 38-55 and shoots easyly great with a lyman gc bullet and a NEI PB ,whose N° I do not know.

I had a winchester commemorative 94 that shot decently gas check bullets.

As far as I have seen the modern 38-55 seem to be an easy to shoot well caliber.

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Hard1 posted this 22 February 2009

Hi Dollar Bill

Just wanted to let you know your idea about the fore stock touching the action was it went yesterday and shot my 38-55 with the forestock sanded as not to touch the action the whole rifle felt different and dam sure shot different the flyers were gone !!

no matter what load I shot it was greatly improved any thing outside of 2in was my fault at 100 yds. I am now going to keep this rifle I spent a year trying every load you can imagine turns out it was a piece of tight wood.

Regards

Bob:dude:

 

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JetMech posted this 22 February 2009

Glad I could help, Bob. There's few things more frustrating than a rifle that aught to shoot but won't. Now you can look forward to that 100 mile jaunt to the range.

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