A Hint, Maybe

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  • Last Post 09 December 2015
joeb33050 posted this 01 October 2015

In the winter I had a thought that some of my bullets were being pushed into the case on chambering, some not, affected accuracy. Lee Collet Die with decapper out crimps the loaded case mouth/neck. Loaded and shot 308's twice, outstanding accuracy, maybe a fluke. Then we moved, I had 2 cataract ops, I can see! Loaded 223, crimped necks, shot last week first time since March with rifle, poor range and horrible climate, but shot very well at 50 yards. Loaded again, crimped necks, shot today, poor range and horrible hot humid conditions, shot the attached target and left. 50 yards These are great groups for me at 50 yards. Nothing proven, but maybe a hint?

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 December 2015

joeb :: you are making me consider changing my goals with cast ....i have settled for bean cans at 40 yards .... you have me believing with a bit of effort i might attain 100 yards !! my heart is all aflutter !!

thank you .

ken

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joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

NOE 227-80 3 groups avg 2.35"

Lyman 225646M 5 group avg 1.38"

Lyman 225415 5 group avg 1.615"

 

3# TiteGroup and 3K Hornady GCs on the way

I stopped crimping case mouths with Lee Collet Die, didn't seem to make any difference.

Lately:

 

Savage 12 FV 223 Rem 100 yards 5 group avg 5 shot groups charges in Grains

 

Gr.       “

 

225415

IMR 4227

9.5       2.25

9.5       2.07

9.5       1.95

10        1.44

10        1.95

10.5     2.98

BLUE DOT

6.5       1.8

7.5       1.615

 

225646M

IMR 4227

8.5       2.15

9          1.575   

9.5       1.48

9.5       1.72

9.5       1.633

10        1.86

2.29

BLUE DOT

6.5       2.075

7.5       1.38

 

NOE 227-80

9.5       3.28

9.5       2.10

9.5       Big groups

10        1.983

BLUE DOT

6.5       10 SHOTS IN 5.6”

7.5       2.35 3 grou

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joeb33050 posted this 01 December 2015

John Alexander wrote: Keep the results coming Joe.  Nice to hear what others are getting for AVERAGE accuracy.

Were the latest results in the Striker.  What is the twist?

JohnYESTERDAY WAS THE SAVAGE 12 FV, 9” TWIST. STRIKER MAYBE FRIDAY, I'M CASTING NOW.

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John Alexander posted this 01 December 2015

Keep the results coming Joe.  Nice to hear what others are getting for AVERAGE accuracy.

Were the latest results in the Striker.  What is the twist?

John

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joeb33050 posted this 01 December 2015

YESTERDAY, 11/30/15, no crimp of the case mouth, Blue Dot, 6.5 Gr. 5 shot groups 100 yards 5 group average

227-80, 10 shots in 5.6" 225415 average 1.8" 225646M average 2.075"

I think the NOE 227-80 is right on the ragged edge of stability/velocity. Faster might get it to group smaller. Blue Dot is fair. Titegroup is not available in the three gunshops I checked yesterday. It's available on the net, $20.40 per  1 lb, but the hazmat and shipping are croakers.

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joeb33050 posted this 19 November 2015

John Alexander wrote: Joe, Strange that the NOE 22780 doesn't seem to work for you.  My experience is just the opposite with the NOE bullet being much easier to break 1.5” than anything else I have tried. As I remember you are getting good land marks on the nose and no leading.  Differences in rifles maybe? JohnA Savage Striker in 22-250 , how could I turn it down. Maybe the NOE bullet will fit in that. I've got other barrels to screw on. The experiments continue. joe b.

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John Alexander posted this 19 November 2015

Joe, Strange that the NOE 22780 doesn't seem to work for you.  My experience is just the opposite with the NOE bullet being much easier to break 1.5” than anything else I have tried. As I remember you are getting good land marks on the nose and no leading.  Differences in rifles maybe? John

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joeb33050 posted this 17 November 2015

I shot again today, about the same. This is 223 Rem, unsized gas checked bullets, LLA, neck crimped in Lee collet die, cases left oily, loaded bullets wiped with LLA, IMR4227, 100 yards 5 shot 5 or 6 group averages. To date: 

Later groups cases RCBS FL sized. Powder charge and avg. group size.

225415

9.5              2.25

9.5              2.07

9.5              1.95

10                1.44

10        1.95

10.5     2.98

 

225646M

8.5       2.15

9          1.575   

9.5       1.48

9.5       1.72

9.5       1.633

10        1.86

10.5     2.29

 

NOE 227-80

9.5       3.28

9.5       2.10

9.5       Big groups

10        1.983

It looks like the NOE bullet is not so good, other 2 Lyman Bullets OK, 225646M = modified maybe best. 

I need to mark the molds by cavity, cast-sort-weigh, all the tricks to get under 1.5” averages. And sell the NOE mold.

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joeb33050 posted this 13 November 2015

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joeb33050 posted this 13 November 2015

225646M

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joeb33050 posted this 13 November 2015

FL sized in RCBS dies, M die, same bullets, primers, lube GC, unsized, LLA 9.5/IMR4227 CCI SR Does the FL sizing change the Lee decapper refusal? Yes, no tight or refusal today It seemed that the gun wants a lot of shots after cleaning before it settles down. Shot 11 NOE 227-80 first, then for record. Shot BIG groups, quit after 3 225646M 6 group avg = 1.63 225415 6 group avg = 1.95

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 11 November 2015

looks like a * significant * tendency to vertical stringing ... i believe that shows a potential to improve ... although there could be several causes for that stringing ....

i had one rifle with pronounced vertical stringing improve immensely after minor firelapping ... still haven't figured that one out .

normally the suspects would be ignition ,,,, barrel whip ... barrel vibration .... bedding ...

and again ... your groups are pretty good for a sporter rifle .

the mystery ... and the challenge ...remains .... why are 95% per cent of cast groups 2.4 moa ? why not 8 moa ? 44 moa ??

ken

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joeb33050 posted this 10 November 2015

Last target

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joeb33050 posted this 10 November 2015

Next target

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joeb33050 posted this 10 November 2015

I shot today, CCI sr primer, 9.5/IMR4227, NOE 227-80, 225646M, 225415; all unsized, gas checked, LLA, cases sized in Lee Collet die, crimped in same die. 5 groups each, 5 shots per group Group sizes inches, in order shot 227-80 2.4, 2.4, 2.15, 1.0, 2.1 avg 2.01 225646M 1.8, 2.4, 2.0, 1.5, .9 avg 1.72 225415 1.175, 1.625, 2.75, 2.05, 1.75 avg 2.07 Average for 15 groups 1.93 I decap and clean primer pockets after each group, Lee decapper and base, slows me down. I noticed several cases tight or refused lee decapper rod, maybe 5 total. First time for that.

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billglaze posted this 06 November 2015

Beltfed:    Thanks for the heads-up.  Wilco with “breaking” the seal; also, I've got quite a quantity of M 118 “brown box” Match ammo to try-  Been so busy, I didn't even think of trying the stuff in the Savage, until I read your post to me.  I remember it sure shot good in the M1; only thing I could outshoot the brown box with was handloads with Sierra 168's at 600 yds.......

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 November 2015

joeb ....a couple thoughts on moly lube ...with my 22 rf match rifle, if i accumulated too much in the barrel, i detected a very slight loss of accuracy ...maybe from 1/2 minute to 0.6 minute ... certainly not to 3 moa .

i used my own mix, about 1 part moly to 3 parts ball bearing grease ( andoc c ) ...i found good performance at barely rubbing every third bullet . the advantage was not immediate accuracy, but consistency through not having to scrub the barrel between targets . just a dry rag every 100 shots .

again, not sure this would cause a 223 to go from 1.5 up to 3.0 moa; but also my goop wasnt super moly lyman .

in shooting my bean can loads ... 2 to 4 moa ... i can't see grouping difference with moly , just cleaning convenience .

i refuse to believe all the evidence that shooting cast bullets is an art ...

ken

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beltfed posted this 05 November 2015

billglaze, If you still have some of that MCorp Fed 308 Match try breaking the 'age seal” on the bullets by reseating them just enough so they “pop” loose. You may fine they shoot much better. An old trick from my old days of HiPo. Service people could be seen behing the line with the M81 or M72, or even M852 popping loos the neck “seal” with a lyman tong tool.

beltfed/arnie

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billglaze posted this 04 November 2015

Thanks, Joe; I'll give it  a try and see if I can duplicate your efforts.  Last time I tried unsized bullets, I had some that missed the paper.  They maybe missed the backstop. I'm going to try again; it's been so many years ago, I can't remember which rifle, what the caliber was, etc. etc.I think it was possibly such a traumatic failure, that I produced my own memory block! Bill 

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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joeb33050 posted this 04 November 2015

I put the gc on, then into a .228 sizing die JUST A SMIDGE! until the gc won't pull off with a thumbnail. I do the same with 30's, gc first. joe b.

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