A Hint, Maybe

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Last Post 09 December 2015

CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 01 October 2015

In the winter I had a thought that some of my bullets were being pushed into the case on chambering, some not, affected accuracy. Lee Collet Die with decapper out crimps the loaded case mouth/neck. Loaded and shot 308's twice, outstanding accuracy, maybe a fluke. Then we moved, I had 2 cataract ops, I can see! Loaded 223, crimped necks, shot last week first time since March with rifle, poor range and horrible climate, but shot very well at 50 yards. Loaded again, crimped necks, shot today, poor range and horrible hot humid conditions, shot the attached target and left. 50 yards These are great groups for me at 50 yards. Nothing proven, but maybe a hint?

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CBA Member

billglaze posted this 01 October 2015

Joe:Comngratulations!I was concerned when you seemingly gave up on the .22s; I figured if you couldn't get something to your liking, what chance did I have?Now you're seemingly on track, which for some strange reason, I feel comforting. (Not that I'm a part of your research, of course.)I needed the encouragement because the .220 Swift with which I'm working, seems a whole lot more intransigent than when I was working the caliber so many years ago. Maybe there's hope yet; selected loads seem to be fairly easy to obtain if I's satisfied with 2” or so.I'm not; not even a little bit. I'm keeping busy trying things; the mathematical possibilities should keep me busy until some time after the year 2200. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 02 October 2015

WOW! Joe, It looks like the evil 22 CB fairy may have finally decided to leave you alone.

Of course she may be just s**kering you in for later torment or maybe 110 F and 100% relative humidity is what it takes.

Will look forward to more groups.

John

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CBA Member

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 02 October 2015

i suspect joeb of putting magnets behind his aiming dots ... old trick ...

ken

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 12 October 2015

Same loads at 50 yards, 7/IMR4227, Tula SP

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 12 October 2015

The other bullet

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 12 October 2015

At 100 yards, 7.3 grains of powder, 225415 = no groups. The NOE bullet shot better, Didn't load the 646M.

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CBA Member

Mike H posted this 12 October 2015

In my opinion you need more powder,or change to another powder.Mike.

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CBA Member

Mike H posted this 13 October 2015

Joe, My apologies,I didn't look carefully enough to see your last groups were at 100 yards.I have used 13 and 13.5 grs of ADI 2205 (H4227) with 55 gr RCBS bullets.Mike.

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CBA Member

billglaze posted this 13 October 2015

Joe, not to stick my nose in, but right now, the best accuracy for me and the .220 Swift, has been about 4-5 gr. of Titegroup; about the same with Red Dot. With the 225415 bullet around 1-1/2” for 10 shots at 100 yds. Most of the time.(g) Also, your formula for 2” groups to encourage beginners, worked great, for me. I'm not exactly what would normally be called a beginner, but was curious to give the concept a try. Inasmuch as I already had the Savage M 12, no extra expense incurred, and the Lyman 311299 (which I already had) has proven the best for my rifles. Only difference was in powder amount: I backed down on the 4227 to 14 gr. before I got my best performance with that powder.Sorry the .223 hasn't worked out better, but there's always tomorrow. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 21 October 2015

Now at 100 yards I tried the 3 bullets with 8 and 9 grains of IMR4227. All with gas checks, some with the groove above the gas check lubed with Lyman Moly and sized .225x", some unsized and LLA. It seemed that the unsized/gc/LLA bullets shot a little better, but group averages were well above 2". 10/20/15 the last loaded 225415 gc sized lyman moly with 10/IMR4227 shot the first 5 all over the paper, so I shot all 30 aimed at 1 target. 30 in 5.2", 25 in 2.375", 20 in 2”

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 21 October 2015

The 225646M, unsized/gc/LLA shot 5 groups into 1.86” average with 10/IMR4227.

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 21 October 2015

And the 225415 gc/unsized/LLA averaged 1.44” for 5, 5 shot, 100 yard groups. These aren't great groups, but they are the best targets I've ever shot with cast bullets in a 223. I suspect that crimping the neck/mouth in the Lee Collet Die may be the trick, that some bullets set back on chambering and others don't, =ing big groups. Or it could be my new eyesight. At any rate, the 2 5 shot 5 group targets were the 106th and 107th target records with this gun, and the first time that it's shown any hope at all.

Now to dance around 10/IMR4227 for a while.

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 21 October 2015

Congratulations. I shot 415s (which worked better than anything else at the time) out of a good Sako for several years and 1.5” was the best I could average. Bill has done better with his Swift and 415s but 1.44” for five consequetive groups impresses me. You have a great squirrel load.

Why don't you check out your theory that crimping is helping because bullets may be being pushed back upon chambering by chambering an (or several) uncrimped dummy rounds and measuring them after extraction to see?

John

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CBA Member

billglaze posted this 23 October 2015

Joe, looks as if you're on the right track. I haven't gotten anything good out of the 646's yet, the 415's are the best I've gotten going, and they're still not good enough. But, I'm not giving up on them; too many folks have gotten them shooting well. I've not yet run out of tricks to try. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 26 October 2015

There are two other changes to old methods. The cartridge cases are lubed, on a folded cloth with synthetic motor oil. After loading they're rolled on the cloth, just a light bit of oil on the cases. The headspace remains constant, headspace is not decreased as sometimes happens with light lads.

After oiling cases the LLA bullet parts outside the neck have more LLA put on, just a bit, with fingers.

I don't know that either helps, but they help me.

joe b.

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 28 October 2015

And on October 27 it all went to pieces. NOE 227-80, only found 3 groups, avg 1.65"-10/IMR4227 225415, 5 groups, 2.980” avg - 10.5/IMR4227 225646M, 5 groups, 2.24” avg, - 10.5/IMR4227

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 28 October 2015

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 28 October 2015

225646M

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Standard Member

OU812 posted this 29 October 2015

My LBT 62gr bullets require a longer freebore. Bullets have snug slip fit when chambered. Loaded rounds have very low run out. 12 BHN bullets are cast HOT for best fillout and consistant weights. I size and seat GC nose first thru the RCBS lube machine. Lower velocities (1400-1800fps)group better.