Completely new to casting with no other reference material other than what I've read so bear with me please. I have a Lee 158 grain semi wad cutter tumble lube die. I have some ingots I made out of wheel weights. I fluxed them once with the only wax I had close by, a crayon. I used a stainless steel saucepan to melt the lead in over an electric single element buffet range. I used a Lee ladle to pour the lead into the mold. I had the mold and ladle sitting on the edge of the saucepan as it was heating up. First thing I noticed was the “stuff” floating on the top of the lead. When I would push it off to the side more would form. What is this? Some form of oxidation? The “stuff” would tend to stick to the edge of the ladle making a good clean pour difficult at best. I finally, after about seven or eight attempts, got a few bullets that filled the mold, but had some wrinkles in them. Not expecting perfect bullets yet, but need to figure out why its setting up on top. Not hot enough? When I got the die I did as the directions said and put never seize on the threads of the sprue plate bolt. Then I held a match over the mold itself to “smoke it” after cleaning the oils off with Naptha. I am looking forward to making good bullets, but need some help here. Also, are there any reference materials you can recommend to me. Thanks in advance.Charlie
Trouble pouring lead through the mold
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- Last Post 21 March 2014
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd or 4th Ed. (It answers all your questions and has pictures.)
Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading. (Free on the internet, old but still excellent how to book. Used copies on Ebay, Abe's books, Amazon, etc.)
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More reading material here. http://www.lasc.us/
mrbill2
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Invest in a CASTING THERMOMETER. That will help you gauge HOT. Likely alloy is too cold from your two facts: Sprue cools on plate, bullets when poured successful, have wrinkles.
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Thanks for the reply's. I new more reading was in my future, but didn't know what to look for.
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A THERMOMETER IS VERY IMPORTANT; go to Brownells.com. Jim
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I agree with corerf ...."Sprue cools on plate, bullets when poured successful, have wrinkles."
Those are both classic symptoms of cold pot, cold bullet mold.
Your Lee ladle has a history of agreement that it is too small to stay hot enough for all but the fastest casting methods by an expert. The little Lee ladle is fine if you can cast well enough to drop bullets from your mold 3 times a minute . That is a good casting speed for an expert and a speed level that works well when pot and bullet mold are up to working temperatures. Strive for that.
A tightly rolled wand made from newspaper about 1 inch thick should instantly blacken and burst into flame on the end when touched to the melt surface in your pot. That is a simple and old way to tell if your melt in your pot is hot enough to flux and hot enough to cast bullets. Try the rolled newspaper test before fluxing until you can get a casting thermometer. If it doesn't flame, your melt in the pot is not hot enough, about 620 to 700 degrees F. is needed for clip on wheel weight scrap to flame a newspaper wand.
Many casting hobbyists never get a thermometer but just get very good at the newspaper test and pot settings.
Gary, (retired casting analyst)
My casting setup is not elaborate or expensive, but I think well planned. Cost is less than one 20 round box of .458 Win Mag factory ammo. I cast a lot in that caliber.
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Charlie, I'm going to suggest you consider purchasing a better ladle than the LEE. It has two major issues, first of all, the capacity is too low to get a complete fill out with most molds. Second, it pours the alloy off the top of the ladle, Lyman & RCBS ladles pour allot from the bottom of the ladle where its cleaner, and the temps a bit more stable. The lead isn't going into the mold because it's solidifying on the sprue plate. This tells us that your mold isn't hot enough. Here's an awesome source of information that you may have already discovered: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellBookContents.htm
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You're not that bad, I couldn't get a single bullet cast when I tried that ladle.
I would suggest a LEE bottom pour pot, any. They will simplify your life a lot.
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I downloaded the Fryxell book and have been doing some reading. Thanks for the link. Very interesting reading. Some is over my head, but I am getting most of it. In the leading chapter right now.Thanks again for the responses.
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The RCBS ladle holds more alloy than the Lyman .
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So, from what I've gathered so far, wheel weights are essentially an unknown combination of alloys. Yes or no? If so, and a person was interested in shooting rifle as opposed to pistol bullets, how do you determine the types of alloys present in the mix? I would rather err to the side of caution.
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Bit the bullet(as it were) and ordered a Lee precision 20# pro 4 pot, Lyman thermometer, Lyman cast bullet 4th edition handbook and some other miscellaneous dirt bike stuff. Looking forward to working on my fledgling molding skills.
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Alloy testing for hardness can be simple with the pencil set method or with a specific tool like the Lee hardness Test kit. I learned to follow the Lee method of determining the ultimate Tensile strength of the bullet alloy that is a conversion from BHN to PSI. The Load level in Ballistic pressure is expressed in PSI and Lee eplains the optimum alloy relation for plain based bullets in their Modern Reloading, Second Edition. Gas checking bullets will extend the load range of a bullet alloy to an amount you have to determine, but the system works for me. It does take some study to understand and apply the theory; it does work to select an alloy or mix an alloy to the load level you desire.
I have been casting bullets since 1957 and now only use pure lead for Muzzle Loading and Lyman #2 alloy or a clone of same hardness for everything else in rifles from .223 to .458 Win Mag. with both plain based and gas checked bullets.
I do mix a recreational bullet alloy that is BHN 15, the same hardness as Lyman #2, and mix that from soft pistol range scrap and Linotype scrap 1:1 . It routinely tests at BHN 14 - 15 but I buy certified Lyman #2 for hunting from RotoMetals.
You can find the Pencil test method, search for it at CastBoolits forum stickies. It is a broad but helpful method and the hardness numbered art pencil sets are only a few bucks at Walmart or office supply places.
Gary
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I'd suggest that you find some cheap emergency candles or some Gulf canning wax for your fluxing. Both will be purified parafin that burns very hot. When you see the white smoke, light it afire. The stuff on top generally heats up and disappears that way, whatever is left behind is burnt to a black ash you just skim off.
Others can suggest better fluxes yet but, that's what I use. Just be aware of the flames that will come off of a small amount of parafin, pretty flammable stuff.
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Made my 1st batch of bullets last night. .38/.357 swc. Wound up with 107 before I had to go cook chicken for our schools fundraiser. I found that I was in fact pouring from a cold ladle into a cold mold, so thank you everyone for the pointers. Next question. I threw back several to the pot because of deformities or incomplete fill out. I have some that are very nice looking. I have some that are dull/not shiny looking. I also have some that are shiny around the top and duller in the lube grooves. The ones that are dull, are they still ok to shoot, or should I throw them back? I was having a good time yesterday. Can't wait to get back at it.
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The ones that are dull and not shiny, That is called a velvet finish and that is actually the bullets that you have cast the largest with the best fill out of the mold. That is a goal to aim at.
The shiny bullets, you will find that they are the ones that have slightly rounded edges where they should have been sharp and square and they have not as good of a fill out as the velvety ones do.
The mold/alloy were closest to ideal working temperature when you cast the velvety bullets. The mold/alloy were a little cool and below ideal working temperatures when you cast the shiny bullets. Go for the very slightly frosty, velvety finish to get the largest diameter, best fill out bullets. The shiny ones are smaller and usually not as accurate when fired. Don't go for pretty/shiny!!! Go for velvety/best fill out.
Look at your bullets with a magnifying glass and you will see the difference of sharp square where they should be that way versus shiny rounded where you got poorer fill out of your castings. You are doing fine! Now you have a better idea what to look for in your bullets when you want maximum fill out and the sharpest detail in your castings.
Gary
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Ok, good to know. Frosty is better. I'll look at the new bullets with a magnifying glass. I'll post what I find.
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My Lee 20-4 bottom pour pot, Lyman thermometer and Lyman cast bullet handbook showed up this morning. My wife isn't likely to get much out of me this weekend. Gary, I noticed yours has a wooden knob, and mine came with a metal knob. Does the metal handle get hot.
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Forgot to post my findings on the look of the frosty compared to the shiny bullets. It appears that the frosty ones lube ridges were more defined. Haven't put a micrometer to them yet. Might get a chance to do some more work on this this weekend.
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