Perfect powder?

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  • Last Post 14 January 2016
joeb33050 posted this 22 January 2014

We now have brass and bullets for grandson Sam's Colombian Mauser 30-06. I want to get him started reloading with a Lee Loader.I can't keep up with all the new powders. So, is there a not-black powder that will work with cast 170-200 grain bullets in 30-06 that fills the case enough so that double charges are improbable = more than half full?  He'll be 16 soon, so safety is paramount. Thanks;joe b.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 January 2014

For lead bullets only, consider 38.0 to 40.0 grains H4831 with Winchester Magnum LR primers. This is position sensitive in cold weather, but meets your criteria. Never use this with jacketed bullets, as it is very easy to stick a bullet in the throat with just the primer force and then have a bore obstruction. As the slow powder continues to burn, it will exceed the strength of the case and rifle. HTH, Ric

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tturner53 posted this 22 January 2014

I just got a pound of new IMR4831. My WWII surplus powder supply has about runned out. Any idea of the velocity on that 38-40 gr load? I'd like to hit maybe 2100/2200 fps for a GP field load.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 January 2014

Hodgdon #24 lists 180 grain GC 38.0 at 1550 f/s and 41.0 at 2022 f/s. No pressures listed. HTH, Ric

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 January 2014

regardless of powder type, i use a ” dipstick ” to stick in each charged case in the loading block ... shows not only overcharges but UNDERCHARGES. 50 cases takes about 15 seconds. i have never had a double charge, but somehow have skipped a case ( g ) .

also, i like 4895 for medium power loads, but still use a dipstick. with 4831 anything less than 90% of full load can give poor ignition ... even with mag primers.

and yeah i like those lee loaders ..and nutcracker sets .. maybe that's why i still prefer my B&M visible ..

ken

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mckg posted this 23 January 2014

Since it's for a grandson, I'm going to point you towards Trail Boss.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%20Reduced%20Loads%20R&P.pdf

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

Hodgdon's 60% rule for H4895 works very well for youth/ reduced cast loads for 30-06. Any 60% or + is definitely more than 1/2 case full and double charges would always over flow all over the place and definitely be safely noticed by a beginning reloader.

32 grains H4895 for the 30-06 and lower have the asteric warning in the 2nd Edition, Lee Modern Reloading because they are less than 1/2 case full and a double charge is possible.

The same Lee book (p.153) says that the 32 grains of H4895 pushes a 168 gr cast bullet 2120 fps @ 30,800 psi. Personally for a deer load, I use 34.2 gr H4895 with a 170 gr Lyman #2 alloy cast FNGC bullet in 30-06 that clocks 2155 fps from a 1903A3 24” barrel in 30-06. It is a mild recoil load my 16 year old grandson likes to shoot at the range.

A link to Hodgdon's 60% rule for youth/reduced recoil loads if you would like to review it: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf>http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf It mentions the long popularity of H4895 for cast bullet rifle loads.

By the way Joe, note in the instructions for the Lee Loader kits that are used by hand with no press that the Lee Loader is not recommended for cast bullets as no case mouth expander is included and the bullet seater does not work well at all with cast bullets. A single stage press would be a better choice for the boy.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 23 January 2014

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

By the way Joe, note in the instructions for the Lee Loader kits that are used by hand with no press that the Lee Loader is not recommended for cast bullets as no case mouth expander is included and the bullet seater does not work well at all with cast bullets. A single stage press would be a better choice for the boy.

Gary Gary;I've loaded roughly 3.76 zillion cartridges with cast bullets and Lee Loaders. The 308Win Lee Loader instructions say “...When loading cast bullets, it's necessary to expand the case mouth in order to accept the cast bullet without shaving lead. A Flaring Tool can be purchased to quickly do this job."I use a pair of long nose pliers (and other things) or “M” dies to bell case mouths.Seating cast bullets hasn't been a problem yet.

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

What is Hodgdon's 60% rule and which powders does it pertains to? Do you by chance have an address where I can find this advice? Thanks, Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck

The Hodgdon 60% rule applies to H4895.

Just click on the hyperlink text in reply#7 .  That is directly from Hodgdon. Here it is again:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf>http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

Sorry you missed that! It is NOT new news at all and has been around from Hodgdon for about as long as H4895! Some sample loads are listed on that page, but Hodgdon says you can use the 60% rule for any caliber and bullet weight that H4895 is recommended at all. I use it with cast bullets from .223 Rem to .458 Win Mag with H4895. I have never had any ignition problems following this rule and have had decent to excellent accuracy without any exception. Hodgdon's only warning is not to reduce H4895 more than 10% below than the 60% rule. Loads less than 50% density with H4895 can have ignition irregularity. 1/2 a case-full or more when appropriate as recommended will not have ignition problems.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

Thanks for the link, as I read on down the replies I found the earlier posting that listed the address. Boy did I feel embarrassed.  Thanks, Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck....I hope you use it!  it works great!

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

4895 is a great cast bullet powder. I'm just out of it right now. Jeff

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck Corn and malt are heavy, they will raise pressure, my favorite very light filler is BPI Original but expensive. Very cheap is Poly-Fil Batting from sewing or hobby stores in about 3/8” thickness. it is usually rolled or folded in packages in the stores and sold as crib or mattress padding. I cut it to 1” strips then cut strips to pieces 10% longer than the airspace, gently roll then and toothpick poke it into my 30-06 light loads gently over the powder. It fills the space and holds the powder against the primer. More than 1 grain and you cut it wrong! it looks like this:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/filler.jpg.html>

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Thanks for tip. I've used it in the past and worked very well but was SO SLOW to load. I want a filler that will go through a powder measure so I can charge a block of 100 cases in 2-3 minutes. I'm loading in high volume for several different matches a month. I'm a high volume competitive shooter who adores the Dillon machines. I'm thinking puff-lon or the like would fill the bill just fine. Jeff

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onondaga posted this 24 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck

Puf-lon is not inert, it is organic dietary fiber with about 1-2% dry lubricant like mica or even graphite would work. Unflavored dietary fiber can be had at pharmacies or pet/livestock feed  supply stores. You can easily make your own Puf-lon look or act alike filler but it will, just like the original, attract moisture and affect your loads.

If you are fishing for a filler that is inexpensive and runs through a charge dumper well, try some PRPSB filler, it is tiny spheres of inert plastic and runs fine through a powder measure. It is about twice as heavy as my favorite filler BPI Original that will also run through a measure, that expensive BPI that is still less than half the price of Puf-lon.

The PRPSB is reasonably priced: http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PRE&Category_Code=BUFFER>http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&StoreCode=PRE&CategoryCode=BUFFER

I have used this in 30-06, .500 S&W and .458 WinMag reduced loads. Add the weight of the filler used to the bullet weight for a total projectile weight in your load and safety calculations. The seller also claims PRPSB cleans bores when it is used as a ballistic filler. I'm skeptical of that claim. PRPSB is not compressible like the fluffier and lighter BPI Original I like,  but PRPSB is a usable, inert ballistic filler that meters well and will not absorb moisture. Warning: don't spill PRPSB on a hard floor, it is a seriously slippery hazard if you do.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Thanks for your posting - it's perfect! Telling me what the original base material of puff-lon is made from is great! I had homed in on the PRSSB and was going to try it until I saw that they wanted $15.70 shipping. Seems frightfully high.  I'm going to try and find a bulk supplier for the PRSSB material.  Thanks for the help. Jeff

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Gary - HDPE - High Density Polyethylene - I knew there was something lurking in the back of my mind. This is what we use as a wad check in our Black Powder target rifles. It's inert in our bores so leaves no deposits to contend with. Does anyone know of a source for HDPE formed into 1mm or 2mm balls for use as a filler? Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 25 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck A source for HDPE is the white HDPE kitchen cutting boards in Walmart or Dollar Stores. HDPE doesn't specifically have to be spherical  particles to be a good filler. It can be ground up and works fine too. I have a Dental bench motor with a Jacobs chuck and I put a coarse white large, 1/2 x 6” wheel on and grind the Walmart cutting boards into filler that I collect into a small clean shop vac while grinding. Primitive/cheap but works for me.....no shipping! If you have the tools it is easy. I have also done this with a 36- 40 grit belt on my table sander.

As far as that Puff-lon goes, I have used cheap instant coffee with mica and it runs through my Lyman #55 measure just as well as Puff-lon.

I don't use fillers much anymore and try to select powders that fill the case better. My main use for fillers now is with the plain base bullets I shoot in .500 S&W rifle. The BPI Original Filler acts as a quazi gas check for the 340 gr  plain base bullet I shoot  at 1700 fps in .500 S&W. The load I shoot will function without the BPI but the groups are 5” @ 50 yards with no filler and 1” @50 yards with the BPI filler. That is a very clear example and choice for me for the plain base bullet and justifies the cost of the BPI for my bear hunting loads. The BPI is something I stock up on when I am ordering something else from MidwayUSA. It is costly but seriously extends the load pressure range for #2 alloy plain base hunting bullets in my .500 S&W rifle and dramatically improves accuracy for me.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 25 January 2014

Gary - grinding your own HDPE is a very practical solution and most ingenious! The resulting strands wouldn't want to go through a powder measure though. The smallest HDPE pellets I've found so far are 1/10". I think these would be to coarse and allow the powder granules to infiltrate the HDPE column. I may just breakdown and buy 4 or 5 bottles of shotgun buffer to beat the shipping charge. That would probably give me a lifetime supply.

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jeff houck posted this 25 January 2014

Geeze Gary, outside of being exceptionally stupid and forgetful at times, sometimes the solution is just quietly staring me in the face. Corn cob polishing media should work just fine. DOOOOOOOOOOH! I'll give it a try in the morning and find out. Jeff

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