Yet another new question

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Tom Acheson posted this 16 February 2025

Maybe more of a jacketed bullet question. The gun is an M-1 Garand, chambered in .30-06. I shoot it in our annual Frozen Chosin match, which this year was this past Saturday. I use 150 or 168-grain Sierra bullets in it.

 

Recently I’ve seen VV powders costly less than our domestic powders, which is the inverse of what the cost situation was several years ago. So I bought a pound of N140 for use in a different gun.

 

However, what is the experience of our crowd in using that powder with those bullet weights in the ’06? I know everyone has their own “favorite domestic powder” for the ’06, but my main interest is N140.

 

Thanks!

 

Tom

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Bud Hyett posted this 17 February 2025

Looking for a substitute for 2400 and liking VihtaVuori powders, I went to their website and contacted them directly asking about N110. They replied suggesting N340 and were very conversational in their reply providing data including fill percentage for several powders using the Lyman 311299 bullet.

You might try this approach.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Tom Acheson posted this 17 February 2025

Thanks, Bud.

I might contact them this week. The loads in the gun I bought the N140 for didn't check out good, so I'm looking for the potential using N140 in the '06 with those dreaded jacketed bullets.

Tom

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Larry Gibson posted this 17 February 2025

With 150 gr SPBTS or FMJBTs 48 gr of N140 will give 2650 +/- fps out of your M1 Rifle.  Same load under the 168s should push 2550 - 2600 fps.  

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Tom Acheson posted this 17 February 2025

Thanks Larry,

Sounds encouraging. I was hoping to be in the 2700 +/- MV neighborhood.

Tom

 

 

 

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M1fuzz posted this 17 February 2025

I believe VV N140 and N150 are appropriate for jacketed bullets in the Garand. You shooting it in Sioux Falls?

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Tom Acheson posted this 17 February 2025

M1,

Not Sioux Falls, but about 5-hours NE, in the Twin Cities. Had our annual Frozen Chosin match on Saturday. (18) shooters, 19 degrees. 100-yards only but 3-position. I'm out of 4895 and 4064 but have 3/4 pound of N140, hence the new question. I know there is a concentration of Garand shooters near Sioux Falls.

Someday I have to try to get a CB load for mine.

Tom

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John Carlson posted this 18 February 2025

I have had success using 24gn of N130 behind NOE311202 in the Garrand.  We have our Frozin Chozin coming up March 8th.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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Tom Acheson posted this 18 February 2025

John,

You just bought the NOE 312-202 RN on the other thread. Is the NOE 311-202 that you mention here a round nose also? Does the round nose shape feed more reliably in the M-1 than a "pointy" design?

There are quite a few Frozen's around the country!

Thanks!

Tom

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max503 posted this 18 February 2025

"Not Sioux Falls, but about 5-hours NE, in the Twin Cities."

 

Pretty sure my nephew was there.

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Tom Acheson posted this 18 February 2025

A side note....

 

Maybe some of our forum readers are not familiar with the use of the words “Frozen Chosin”. There was a battle in the Korean War starting in early November 1950 in brutal winter conditions. This was between UN forces (mostly American) and North Korean and China forces. Communist China troops had entered the war in October 1950. The UN forces were overwhelmed and had to withdraw, causing the battle to continue into November and then December. During the retreat the US forces earned the reputation of leaving no dead or wounded behind.

 

Today gun clubs conduct matches called Frozen Chosins in remembrance of the sacrifices made by our troops during the battle. Up here in Minnesota and I assume South Dakota, the matches are conducted in the winter, to take advantage of winter weather, to hope shooters appreciate the challenges of handling a rifle in cold weather. It is hoped that shooters use the guns our troops did at the time….am M-1 Garand or Carbine. 

 

Our club has conducted (21) consecutive annual matches. (This was my 19th time). I do it to try to survive the cold (especially my toes and fingers), to use a Garand in a 3-pisition match and to feed my interest in WWII history. The December 1944 Battle of the Bulge experienced similar winter conditions, using the same guns. 

 

Sorry for the length!

 

Tom

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John Carlson posted this 18 February 2025

The 311202 is just a .001 smaller version of the 312202. I also have it in 314 for chambers with more wear. Our Frozin Chozin (spelling intentionally mangled) has a similar history but we get little participation when the daily highs get stuck below zero. March weather is a real crap shoot so wardrobe variety is essential. For some of our cast bullet shooters it is their only CBAmatch of the year.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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Tom Acheson posted this 18 February 2025

John

We might be fortunate up here having about 12-14 CBA matches a summer. None of the shooters at Saturday’s Frozen event were our typical CBA match shooters. Maybe the inverse of your area.

I did try a CB load in my M-1. It went bang but did not cycle the action. Probably need more powder.

My questions… Can a CB load be as “accurate” as a jacketed bullet load? Must we do something to the rifle to allow it to work properly? I’ve heard things about modifications to the OP Rod and/or the “gas port”?

Tom

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Lucky1 posted this 19 February 2025

To answer the accuracy question, my M1 actually shoots cast better than any jacketed load I have tried so far. Not as good as my bolt guns but they certainly are no slouch as so of our competitors in DBR have exhibited. Garand not cycling issue. That describes mine and many of the competitors loads during the match. A few cycle but those usually don't win so far. I tend to think of it as a semi auto single shot. It really doesn't need a new gas block or op rod mods to shoot cast. And no, the gas port doesn't plug up with cast. Basically loads run in the 15-1600 fps range like bolt guns do. Hope this helps a little.

Scott Ingle

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Lucky1 posted this 19 February 2025

One more thing. Technically we can't legally shoot a CBA match in the semi auto mode because our current rules require single loading.

Scott Ingle

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Tom Acheson posted this 19 February 2025

Scott,

Good to know, thanks!

I wasn’t thinking of a CBA match but the Frozen match. Single loading won’t work for that one.

Might be fun to show up @ a CBA match with the M-1 in the Production category!

Tom

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Lucky1 posted this 19 February 2025

Warning! Those orange bulls suck with open sights but what the heck...go for it! That's why I stick to the Military matches so I feel like I have a fighting chance. And then the cold wind blows and my eyes water too much anyway. Gotta love those Frozen Chozins. Good luck. Maybe you can justify a M1D then?

Scott Ingle

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Tom Acheson posted this 19 February 2025

Scott, I was thinking the CBA Military category IF the Garand is legal. I have a SLED for it. Agree, the Traditional CBA targets are an impossibility with iron sights! Tom

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RicinYakima posted this 19 February 2025

Why don't you shoot Military Issue Class. Nice folks and great fun with real bullseye targets. 

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Tom Acheson posted this 19 February 2025

Is the Garand allowed in those CBA matches?

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John Carlson posted this 20 February 2025

Yes, The M1 is legal in military matches.  Have only seen it in issue class.  CMP rifles with the Criterion barrels are not legal (same as Criterion barrels on the 03s) and the M1s chambered in 308 are not legal.

As scott mentioned, I've seen cast loads that would eject the empty but not actually cycle.  Single loading works OK, more experienced Garand shooters did train me well enough that I do not yet have an "M1 thumb".

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

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