WTH

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  • Last Post 19 October 2021
Wineman posted this 16 October 2021

Well TTurner and I went out for our annual "who's better" shoot. I choose the "Antique Military Rifle" Postal. I shot a 1897 dated Finn M39, he shot a Trap Door Springfield. My loads were carefully worked up: everything weighed, sized and seated within my ability to be consistent (311299, @314 with the top band at 311, 17 gr Al 2400,a WLR and 0.001 neck "tension"). Tim did his usual of a handful of this and that and maybe a dead cat or two, mixed in just for fun. Anyway when we started out, we shot the first two targets and he was holding on the frame and got a decent hand sized group. On my two targets there were about six out of 10 shots, in a wide pattern, the rest not on the paper. Well it looks like the match is over. Well we shot the next two targets and his groups get even better, my first target is not great but at least the five shots are on the target. The next target has four shots in 1" and the fifth shot not in the group (maybe two in the same hole, but I wouldn't put money on that). When we collect the targets I get a how the hell do you go from that to this? If I felt that I was being slapdash, uncaring or just plain lazy I might expect to see such results. But when you put that much effort into shooting accurately, you expect to shoot accurately. Tim thought I had a rifle that was too clean and it took 30 shots to settle in. I checked the bullet hardness and they were ~15 BHN with AL gas checks, However there were a couple of lots and I did not check every bullet. Oh well, any day at the range is better than one at work. If any theories arise (other than Dave you suck) come up, let me know.

Thanks,

Dave

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RicinYakima posted this 17 October 2021

Most likely it is "bore condition". Personally, I always shoot about 5 rounds into the berm before I even start sighting in for the day at matches. At the end of the day, one damp patch of Ed's Red followed by one dry patch. The bore doesn't get cleaned till the end of the season and the next year it may take 50 rounds to get it to settle down again. 

Now the kicker is that I use NRA lube or Grey's 24 both extinct. Other lubes require different techniques so you will have to experiment with each rifle. HTH Ric

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 October 2021

ric .. i gots a little Grey24 left ... i don't need it for plinking .. want it ? ...  pm me.  

 

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John Alexander posted this 17 October 2021

I will also guess bore condition, but to shoot that wildly I think serious leading is a more likely culprit than the need for more fouling shots.  Steel wool and LeadOut patches may be called for. You didn't say anything about oblong holes so probably not a stability problem.

Never mind the bullet dimensions what marks were on bullet after you chambered and extracted a dummy round? For a bore rider there should be land marks on the nose -- faint will usually do. 

Putting a lot of work into loading such as cleaning, weigh sorting, case prep, etc is just lipstick on a pig unless the basics are right. In fact, in my experience, all that is just lipstick even for a match winning load.

Ric is right, different lubes as well as different bores may require different approaches to fouling shots. The rifle I am shooting now produces smallest groups right after a serious cleaning, Well maybe one shot to check, but that will usually be in the group.  This holds no matter if the lube is LBT Blue, MTL. LLA. or no lube at all.  YMMV.

Good luck in solving the problem and please post what you find it is an interesting story so far.

John

 

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RicinYakima posted this 17 October 2021

ric .. i gots a little Grey24 left ... i don't need it for plinking .. want it ? ...  pm me.  

 Ken, Thanks for the offer. However I bought 20 sticks of Tom's last batch and that will last the rest of my shooting days as I only lube the gas check groove and one lube groove. Thanks!

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RicinYakima posted this 17 October 2021

Please see Fouling Shot #271 page 13 for the article "The "bad" Bullet Test". The lipstick only counts if you want to shoot more X's and 10's. Group shooting is pretty much shooting skill unless there is some mechanical problem. 

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Wineman posted this 19 October 2021

Thank you gentlemen. The rifle was clean to start, half a dozen patches of Ed's Red, half a dozen dry patches. Ed's left in bore. I had fired 10 jacketed rounds prior to that cleaning. The lube was 45:45:10 two applications. The bullet has a small scuff on it and seated any longer, they stick in the bore if I extract without firing. Since it was the last five rounds that went into the smallest (really small) group, leading is probably not the issue (lack of leading?). The pig probably looks nicer (at least in a dark bar) but the reduction of variables was the intent. I will grant that eyesight may be problematic, but again trying to do the same thing every shot was the goal. More work to do for sure.

Dave

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