Who makes factory .44-40 smokeless loads safe for 1880s BP frame?

  • 387 Views
  • Last Post 14 May 2025
  • Topic Is Solved
Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2025

Friend in assisted living has an 1880s black powder frame heirloom Colt in nice condition which he would like to shoot a little. Handloading is out. BP loads are out.

He wants to shoot on an indoor range which doesn't allow black. Want something mild and safe in the old gun.

Savvy Jack and Larry....Have you guys tested any of the smokeless cowboy loads. Which brand should he look for? Must not exceed about 13,000 psi. Around 10-12,000 would be ideal.

Suggestions?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Bryan Austin posted this 08 May 2025

Howdy Ed.

 

Folks have to understand that after speaking with a factory rep., I used Buffalo Bore's so called "max pressure" loads as my control. This control was set to 11,300psi, 300psi over SAAMI's 11,000max psi.

All of the below data is using psi, not CUP

With this setting, Winchester factory Cowboy Action load pressures THAT I TESTED were so low, they would not even register on the PTII test equipment....below 6,000psi. Meantime, Winchester and Remington's JSP hunting loads came in at 6,700psi and 8,000psi respectively.

Early replicated 40gr of Swiss FFg black powder came in at 14,300psi, while normal modern brass loads came in at a whopping 8,300psi using Goex FFFg.

Early replicated loads using Dupont No.2 came in at 10,190psi, while Sharpshooter powder loads came in at 9,176psi...proving the advertisement that the early smokeless RIFLE loads produced less pressures than black powder.

The infamous 44 HV sharpshooter loads came in at 15,583psi, 500psi over the standard HV published pressure by 1917...and only 1,000psi higher than original replicated black powder loads.

Most of Lyman's handloading Group I and Group II data pressures were on par as well. Thus I have a test line, liner with published and historical data.

The big wonder is......IF my data is reliable, any post WWII Remington or Winchester JSP factory loads of 7,000psi would be safe....ESPECIALLY Winchester's cowboy action loads. And as a reminder, Both Remington and Winchester JSP bullets are .4255" and .426", respectively...while Winchester's lead cowboy loads are .428"

 

 

44-40 Website -https://www.44-40.org

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2025

Thanks. Exactly the info needed.

Did you happen to test the Hornady or HSM Cowboy loads? Those are available where he is.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bryan Austin
  • Bud Hyett
Larry Gibson posted this 08 May 2025

Ed

Unfortunately, I've not been able to come up with a 44-40 Contender barrel.  Thus, I've not been able to pressure test that cartridge.  However, some years back I did extensive testing of VV N32C in most cowboy action cartridges.  Part of that test was chronographing and/or pressure testing available factory cartridges.  I was able to chronograph Black Hills, Magtech, HSM and Hornady factory Cowboy Action ammunition in my 71" barreled Ruger Vaquero and in my Cimerron M92 Carbine.  Based solely on chronograph velocity data based on similar bullet weight, it appears the Magtech 4440C (they have 3 different 44-40 cartridges) would give the less pressure.  Next would be Hornady's 205 gr CA 44-40 load.  

I also tested those company's 44 SPL and 45 Colt CA loads.  With those I got no pressure measurements recorded.  That indicates (as with Bryan's testing) the pressure was less than 11,000 psi.  Thus, i would suspect the 44-40 pressure levels would be close to the same.

If you want to send me 10 rounds of whichever 44-40 CA load you settle on, I can pull the bullets/powder and load them in 44 Magnum cases and pressure test.  Based on my previous correlation testing between the 44-40 and the 44 Magnum we can get a good correlation pressure figure.  The one caveat being the create enough pressure in the 44 magnum cases to get a pressure measurement.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 08 May 2025

Thanks for the offer, but I am going to suggest he order Winchester Cowboy loads and call it good.

Based upon Lyman data in Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition of 2010 if I were to reload his brass and cut my usual 6 grain charge of Bullseye by 1/2 grain to 5.5 grains with Accurate 43-208H it should fall well into a safe range. If you had a chance to try that in your .44 Mag Contender that would be icing on the cake.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Bryan Austin posted this 08 May 2025

Did you happen to test the Hornady or HSM Cowboy loads? Those are available where he is.

 

I was not able to acquire any of those loads to test.  I feel confident that any factory loaded cowboy loads are going to produce less than 8,000psi since the velocities are much slower than the hunting ammo velocities.
I think the key issue here would be be bullet size vs old gun bore size. While I think Winchester uses soft lead .428", other manufactures may use hard cast.

 

44-40 Website -https://www.44-40.org

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Ed Harris posted this 14 May 2025

My friend bought some Hornady cowboy loads. They shoot accurately to the fixed sights of his 1880 SA. He says the load is very mild, and shoots clean. No leading. He plans on getting some more to try in his 1879 Winchester lever action. Stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bryan Austin
Bryan Austin posted this 14 May 2025

Very Nice !!

44-40 Website -https://www.44-40.org

Attached Files

Close