I scoped the throat of the Savage 06 I found hidden away. How they managed to cut this throat is a complete mystery to me. I'm going to firelap it to see if it smooths out. The raised portion in the pictures leave what amounts to scratch marks on the bullet but it still shot alright when I tried it.. Weird
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Also found this up at the crown so it'll get the round head brass screw and lapping compound treatment.
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so much for the legendary Savage barrel quality !
hope your lapping helps it out.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Lots of reamer marks in that barrel Pat. You have any idea what year that rifle is? You have shot this rifle already haven't you?
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No idea when the gun was built. The "chatter" marks don't bother me because all the Savages I've ever looked at had them.. It's the raised metal on the throat lands. And I have shot it once and it shot alright but that throat can't be helping anything.
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stop the frustration, throw away the bore scope ????
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That throat looks like my Winchester mod 94 .30-30. Almost no leade, the rifling just starts. I have firelapped one barrel and will never do it again. I have lead lapped over 100 (most weren’t mine) and I find it a much more controllable process. That crown is going to take a long time with a round head screw. You might consider getting a crowning tool from Pacific Tool and Gage or Brownells. I wouldn’t worry about the reamer marks, I have seen barrels that were much worse that shot very well. I’m not sure borescopes are our friends.
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Have you ever used the SS pins to clean your brass? That throat has impact marks all over it. The rest of the barrel has the reamer marks feed rate before it has the button rifled through it.
But those marks sure look like what happens when the SS ins are left in the case and fired.
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I like having a bore scope. It has saved me from making a couple bad purchases. On the flip side it can get you worried over nothing.
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I don't know the history of this gun because I don't even know where I got it. I agree it looks like impact marks but since I don't tumble or even clean my brass if someone messed it up it wasn't me. It doesn't have to be perfect since it shot alright but if I can improve it a little with firelapping I'll take it. The reamer marks are typical Savage from the barrels I've seen but they shoot well so that's not a concern. I like having and using a borescope. There's a chance I have a PTG crowning tool. I'll have to check the tool box.
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I have a Savage Axis in '06 that I bought in 2012 I think, it shoots great. I don't have a bore scope. I also have an Axis in 6.5 Creedmoor and it also shoots great, I bought it in late 2019.
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No idea when the gun was built. The "chatter" marks don't bother me because all the Savages I've ever looked at had them.. It's the raised metal on the throat lands. And I have shot it once and it shot alright but that throat can't be helping anything.
I was merely making a statement about the reamer marks. I've seen worse barrels then that (not talking about the throat part) shoot cast very well. Some were pretty ragged barrels on military rifles. Crowning isn't a bad idea.
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I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying for a perfect crown. In spite of the almost universal belief about the need for a good crown, it is hard to damage a crown enough to cause bigger groups. See Mann's work 120 years ago or the article in Fouling Shot #230 (July/Aug. 3014). Of course truing it up is unlikely to make things worse.
John
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Several times at the Military Nationals, shooters would say the crown was not good while looking thru a magnifying glass for their poor results. That night they would polish the crown and shoot better the next day. I think that it was nerves and excitement leading to poor shooting, not the crown. But they talked themselves into believing it.
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I think that it was nerves and excitement leading to poor shooting, not the crown. But they talked themselves into believing it.
Thanks for the replies. If my lathe was wired up I'd knock out fixing the crown in short order but since my move its been sadly neglected. I'm a firm believer in confidence being at least 50% of results. The ding in the crown might have absolutely no effect on how the gun shoots but I'll know it's there. Maybe if this thing doesn't work out I'll just look around for a replacement barrel and kill two birds with one stone. As long as it's a factory replacement that's allowed in HNT class right.
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Thanks for the replies. If my lathe was wired up I'd knock out fixing the crown in short order but since my move its been sadly neglected. I'm a firm believer in confidence being at least 50% of results. The ding in the crown might have absolutely no effect on how the gun shoots but I'll know it's there. Maybe if this thing doesn't work out I'll just look around for a replacement barrel and kill two birds with one stone. As long as it's a factory replacement that's allowed in HNT class right.I think that it was nerves and excitement leading to poor shooting, not the crown. But they talked themselves into believing it.
Let me tell you about that ding in the muzzle. Back when I was doing gunsmithing work I got an old Remington Semi-auto 22LR rifle in. You know how they crowned them with the radius muzzles back then, well the ding was in the middle of the thickness of the barrel, that is between the bore and the outside diameter of the barrel. Want to know how far it threw the bullet off? The target was two feet from the muzzle as I wanted to see how far off it would throw the bullet. It was a good foot!! Put the barrel in the lathe and recrowned it and the rest was history.
Aw hell, don't be lazy, wire the lathe up and do the job right Pat!!
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Want to know how far it threw the bullet off? The target was two feet from the muzzle as I wanted to see how far off it would throw the bullet. It was a good foot!! Put the barrel in the lathe and recrowned it and the rest was history.
Cmon man. I was born on a day but it wasn't yesterday! The barrel threw a bullet 1 foot out when the target was 2 feet from the muzzle and recrowning cured it? I dont think so. Doesn't that equate to 150 feet out at 100 yards? Maybe the front sight was mounted on the side of the barrel and you didnt notice or you were working on a Krummlauf.
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The edge where the bore meets the crown looked undamaged and round, not as though the dent in end of the muzzle pushed any metal in. It shocked the hell out of me when it shot that far off that close. I have another one for that's not to do with the crown. I was pushing a Finn 39 past it's limits for cast. I was testing as I though she was key holing and I wanted to try to recover the bullet in nice fine damp dirt. She keyholes full sideways at six feet! Never had one do that. Back to the 22. My friend who's a gunsmith recrowned it as my lathe was down. When I shot it, it wasn't cured! I had to take it back to him to take more off. The second time did it. I have no idea how it got that bad. No the bore was fine right up to the edge of the crown. I saw zero unusual wrong with the end of the barrel. I don't care of noboyd believes it or not. Guess you'll have to ask the flys on the wall.
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"The target was two feet from the muzzle as I wanted to see how far off it would throw the bullet. It was a good foot!!"
nice story....
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I have owned 3 Remington 700's chamered in 223 Remington. The first one I purchased had a terrible nonuiform throat, but the rifle shot decent, about 1" at 100 yards. I emediatly purchased a bore scope to inspect rifle throats before next purchase. My following Remington 700 had more perfect throats and grouped better.
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If you want to smooth the throat out and clean up the tool marks in the rest of the barrel, all you need to do is make up a couple hundred paper-patched bullets, load them, and shoot them. They will clean and smooth the throat and the rest of the barrel out until it looks like it is hand-lapped and polished. I have used this on several rifles whose barrels looked terrible. If you ever took your kids to an amusement park you may have noticed how smooth the railing are. Those railings were polished by all of the bare hands of the people holding them while waiting to go on the ride. It positively will not harm the barrel either.
As for the crown, I discount the current craze and theory that the crown controls the accuracy of the rifle. Yes, it is the last thing that the bullet has touched, but I had an old gunsmith who built rifles for the US Navy's marksmanship unit and he would crown the barrel with an old hand-cranked drill and a semi-round bur in it. Bill would clamp the rifle or barrel in a vertical position in a vise and do the crown with his hand-cranked drill, and of the two rifles he built for me both shot minute of angle or less with my losds, even cast shot well in them.
B.E.Brickey
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I seem to recall that someone did an experiment where they took a good shooting barrel and on purpose messed up the crown. The before and after groups were very close to the same in size but IIRC the after may have had a different poi.
Crown other than cosmetic has little effect on performance was their conclusion. How many folks have shot old military rifles with horrible looking bores and achieved good results? IMHO borescopes are overrated and most of what people are seeing that causes them concern is not, or does not matter as far as accuracy.
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If you want to smooth the throat out and clean up the tool marks in the rest of the barrel, all you need to do is make up a couple hundred paper-patched bullets, load them, and shoot them. They will clean and smooth the throat and the rest of the barrel out until it looks like it is hand-lapped and polished. I have used this on several rifles whose barrels looked terrible. If you ever took your kids to an amusement park you may have noticed how smooth the railing are. Those railings were polished by all of the bare hands of the people holding them while waiting to go on the ride. It positively will not harm the barrel either.
As for the crown, I discount the current craze and theory that the crown controls the accuracy of the rifle. Yes, it is the last thing that the bullet has touched, but I had an old gunsmith who built rifles for the US Navy's marksmanship unit and he would crown the barrel with an old hand-cranked drill and a semi-round bur in it. Bill would clamp the rifle or barrel in a vertical position in a vise and do the crown with his hand-cranked drill, and of the two rifles he built for me both shot minute of angle or less with my losds, even cast shot well in them.
Brodie is dead on 100% correct about paper patched bullets clean up your bore and grooves.
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No idea when the gun was built. The "chatter" marks don't bother me because all the Savages I've ever looked at had them.. It's the raised metal on the throat lands. And I have shot it once and it shot alright but that throat can't be helping anything.
Hey just for the hell of it
https://www.vintagegunscopes.com/savage-serialization
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Hey just for the hell of ithttps://www.vintagegunscopes.com/savage-serialization
Those serial members are for 99s. From the letter code it was made between 1982 and 1989. That's the best Im gonna do because I don't care what year it was born but if I keep finding problems with it I'll be able to point to the exact date it died. Paper patching a couple hundred 30 caliber bullets will happen right after I go in to get castrated with a butter knife.....in other words neither thing is ever gonna happen.
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if 200 paper patch bullets smoothed a bore I'd imagine 2000 would wear it out. I'm with pat,pass the butter knife!
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I firelapped the barrel today. It's far from perfect but to my eye looks a little better. I shall see. For guys who say bore scopes arent necessay how could you get cool pictures like these without one. This scope is a Teslong that you can get on Amazon for under 60 bucks and hooks up to you phone or computer.
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I firelapped the barrel today. It's far from perfect but to my eye looks a little better. I shall see. For guys who say bore scopes arent necessay how could you get cool pictures like these without one. This scope is a Teslong that you can get on Amazon for under 60 bucks and hooks up to you phone or computer.
Well that's an improvement, when you going to test it out and shoot it?
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Well that's an improvement, when you going to test it out and shoot it?
Soon as I get a chance.
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Thats a good throat for a good concentric (bumped) bore rider.
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Never look. Just go shoot that thang! It will smooth itself out.
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With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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Never look. Just go shoot that thang! It will smooth itself
Shooting the thang is in the forcast but I'd have to shoot it everyday for a century for that throat to smooth itself up.
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From the letter code it was made between 1982 and 1989.
That means your letter code is "E", if interested, with the first 3 digits of SN I can get you to the exact year. Looking forward to seeing your results after fireforming!
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From the letter code it was made between 1982 and 1989.That means your letter code is "E", if interested, with the first 3 digits of SN I can get you to the exact year. Looking forward to seeing your results after fireforming!
Thanks for the offer but the question of when it was made came from someone else. I couldn't care less since it's what I have and don't know why knowing when it was made would make a difference anyway. But once again thanks for the offer of looking up the info. What surprises me is the comments on the reamer marks in the barrel, which dont bother me at all, while overlooking the fact that the lands in the throat look like they were cut with a backhoe.
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Thanks for the offer but the question of when it was made came from someone else. I couldn't care less since it's what I have and don't know why knowing when it was made would make a difference anyway. But once again thanks for the offer of looking up the info. What surprises me is the comments on the reamer marks in the barrel, which dont bother me at all, while overlooking the fact that the lands in the throat look like they were cut with a backhoe.From the letter code it was made between 1982 and 1989.That means your letter code is "E", if interested, with the first 3 digits of SN I can get you to the exact year. Looking forward to seeing your results after fireforming!
I recall in the early days that Savage indeed used a backhoe to pull the rifling button through. Kind of like when Joyce Hornady first started he pull copper tubing though a sizing die that was in the outside wall of his house using his truck outside.
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I recall in the early days that Savage indeed used a backhoe to pull the rifling button through.
Could you point me to some literature backing that up? Sounds a little far-fetched but I'll keep my opinion to myself until you can prove it one way or the other. Or maybe you were just kidding.
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