Small little hand held luber

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  • Last Post 21 September 2020
Shopdog posted this 12 June 2020

I was looking up some very old loading tools and ended up reading a NRA? or something along that line,publication from the early 20's. Didn't find exactly what I was researching but stumbled into a small,fit in your palm,bullet "greaser".

The writer said he wasn't applying for any patents and encouraged readers to copy it. The pics and text were extremely short on description,arousing my curiosity. Started digging around looking for grease cups.... looks like all the repro market is coming out of china(yuck).

Here's the main gist or dope,and will require you to google a bit;

The basis of the "greaser" is a Lukenheimer,bronze marine,grease cup. Only real modifications were to sweat an empty brass case on the outlet,existing threaded fitting. Not much text,in fact it doesn't even mention Lukenheimer.... I found that on Ebay and it is what the author used. But a search engine should bring up a better detail in the form of a cutaway diagram. Apparently,they're in sorta demand from the hit&miss engine guys?

Too cheap to buy a "real" one,think it would make a real nice home shop project for guys wanting to practice their threading skills however. I may make some detours from the original bullet usage,design. Keep y'all posted.

PS,this is not a "sizer" it's for applying lube.

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Shopdog posted this 12 June 2020

"20's" would be 1920's... Dang,how time flys?

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barra posted this 12 June 2020

I’ve seen something like you describe with some pictures.

it was a tube with like you say a but with a screw to wind in.

the working end had a ring to place the bullet in to the grease groove you wanted to fill and  a hole in it to expel the grease.

From memory two holes.

 More of a small type hand held ‘pope’ luber.

 I played with making one and it works if the hole is a close fit as to not expell grease every where.

 I thought it would be good for a pocket full of bullets and small de -re primer for some field expedient reloading.

I ended up just dip lubing but I may re visit the concept.

Some thing similar but different than what you have stated.

 

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Shopdog posted this 12 June 2020

The one I read about;

Looked like an '06 case that had it's head end cut off. This was slid over the 'Luke's threaded outlet. Then soldered on.

I'm assuming; the case neck was left,as fired so a bullet would slide in. All that from a smaller than postage stamp pic.

Further assumptions; I'm going to say you take a bullet,slide it in base first to cover however many grooves? and turn the little T handle. Your thumb holds the bullet in?

Years ago had mentioned on another site about possibly using a std grease gun on a home spun, bullet "holding" base. I have lube sizers so these items aren't to circumvent their usage. I guess,more of a.... wonder what this would do exercise?

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barra posted this 14 June 2020

Yeah it works.

Well I have a cake cutter 30 cal. With a straight 0.311" bore in it.

If I load it with lube by plunging it into a cake of lube and use an appropriate size rod.

(lee loader primer rod and the case holder as a handle )you can place a bullet base first and with the bullet nose on a hard surface squeeze lube into the grooves.

you have a little extra extruded and need to wipe the base still. So a rag is needed 

You still need a cap for the end to keep the muck out and lube in when not in use.

At least the concept works.

 

The T handle grease luber would work well.

A threaded case or tube of the right dimensions would be more prudent for change of caliber thou.

A bullet holder of some sort would be needed as applying downward force enough to extrude the lube would become old in a hurry.

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Wheel Weights posted this 15 June 2020

The Pope grease pump was the best of the lot BUT is nowhere as good as a SAECO/Redding lube sizer.

The easiest way is tumble lube in Bens followed with a tumble in dry powder lube.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

I'm more than satisfied with lubing(pistol bullets) and lite swaging on the 3 Lyman 450's here.....,with modifications towards adj alignment and torque wrench handles.

There's reasons to make a handheld luber that may not make a lick of sense to another shooter.

On varmint,high velocity rigs,I'm not sizing in a push through style die. And don't lube in one either. The TINY bit of lube which is like chunky peanut butter that has had it's lid off for a month,is applied with a small penknife that has laid on my loading bench for 40+ years. ONLY,to the small space above GC.

Never say never but,I won't be "buying" any more lube sizers. If it doesn't get made in our shop then,someone else is going to be using it.

I've heard very good things about the Saeco.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 15 June 2020

...  when i started casting in 1956, and knew everything ( i read all the manuals and phil sharpe )  ... i used an old ideal lube-sizer ( 1935? ) and an old potter bottom pour from a gunsmith hero of mine ...  i did get to also use a Pope luber ... kinda like the luber mentioned here.

about 1965 i realized i knew nothing for sure about cast bullets and got rid of the ideal collector's sizer .  i tapped the hornady checks on but didn't crimp them or size the bullet. .. worked fine.

i use a gooey lube and only lube at the time i seat .. just pick up the bullet with gooey fingers and seat with the same motion.  might not be a perfectly pretty lube job but i haven't seen any difference.

i might not know much for sure about cast bullets, but i make up for it by being lazy ... ( g ) ...

following this thread with great interest, hoping to see some photos ...

ken

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John Alexander posted this 15 June 2020

The easiest way to prepare a cast bullet for loading isn't tumble lubing.  It is not lubing at all as illustrated not long ago in another thread and an article in the Fouling Shot.  

I have one more set of lubed vs. unlubed loads to shoot and will add to the old thread soon.  

Shopdog's use of only a TINY amount of a material, that seems an unlikely lubricant, to the gas check shank only for his high velocity varmint loads also seems to hint that a lubricant isn't needed for most of us who's  bullets are chugging along at less the 2K fps.

Of course any such nonsense will be totally disregarded and soon forgotten by almost all cast bullet shooters, some who have spent years trying to find the best lubricant.

Oh well.

John

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

Haha,sorry.... I eat a lot of peanut butter. The lube starts as 50/50 BW-vaseline.... which is blended in a dbl boiler. Then,shaved/crumbled BW is incorporated without heat.

It started when someone was suggesting,or looking for .30 cal long range sledgehammer(my interpretation)loads. So I loaded a starting JB load of 4350, the 50/50,and a typically,fully lubed 175g Lyman 311041 into a brandy new CDL '06.

The lube came out before the bullet like using a paint spray gun. We all had a good chuckle. The suggestion was made,being that I really didn't want a recipe change,to add some BW. I did, to a now 3-1 ratio. But mixed as above. It's the consistency of crunchy peanut butter..... or dirty mashed potatoes.

Then just kept using less and less. All of which isn't all that connected to this idea of a small hand luber.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

Thinking about the Pope luber;

Was researching,looking really,for a pic of the Pope hand held luber referenced by posters above,this a.m. Did some good reading on Mr Pope and one little tidbit of info was that in the 29th edition(1975) of Gun Digest,is a reprint of the Pope catalog. Took 2 minutes to find the digest on Ebay for less than 10$ to the door,so ordered it.

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Shopdog posted this 15 June 2020

The brain trust here and elsewhere(other forums) are lightyears ahead of me on the science behind all this stuff. And that's perfectly OK.

There are things however that belie reason,logic,and possibly science. Not saying this as fact but,concerning the "amount" of lube..... it may very well be that less velocity,requires more lube.

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John Alexander posted this 15 June 2020

Some low velocity loads require no lube at all.  in the tests by several shooters and reported on this forum last year loads with no lube were shot from 1,500 to 2,400 fps with no leading. Some with excellent accuracy.

Some shooters compete with loads from 1,500 to 2,200 fps with all grease grooves loaded and win. Other times bullets with a tad of lube in the gas check gap do the winning.  Anybody who thinks they can solve CB problems with logic instead of testing hasn't been around long or isn't paying attention.

John

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barra posted this 16 June 2020

I use 5/50 be/vas as a lube or what ever it ends up for summer or winter.

I have filed an empty lip balm lipstick thingo and crayoned lube onto bullets and paper patches before .

It works well and good enough.

 

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 16 June 2020

" crayoned the lube " ...

oh my, i suppose some non-expurt has used a box of crayolas for special high accuracy loads ...  

wonder if makes pretty bullet holes ? 

***************

speaking of expurts, i have yet to receive my " expurt " badge in the mail ...

in the very rare occasion i get groups under 1.5 moa, i never know why ... also, my 6 inch groups come from some mysterious demon unseen and not speaking ...

except if my castings are loose in the throat ... but everything else about cast is just a big mystery to me ...

***********

ever notice we don't have none wimmin critter casters ? ... maybe they know something we superior men casters don't  know ...  like ? when to quit trying ? ...

ken

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barra posted this 23 August 2020

 

i use a gooey lube and only lube at the time i seat .. just pick up the bullet with gooey fingers and seat with the same motion.  might not be a perfectly pretty lube job but i haven't seen any difference.

 

ken

So what is this famous gooey lube you are using?

I’ve found away to go fixed with my 310 cadet.

and want to outside lube them after they are seated.

Mind you sometimes I can fool myself into thinking sumtink I do will really work.

I seem to believe that if I had an unblemished barrel I  too could shoot without lube.

ha

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 August 2020

Barra .. my gooey lube is moly powder based ...  i mix moly powder into a synthetic Mobil grease we use on our hi-zoot lathes in the live tools ... ( equivalent to Andok C ball bearing grease ) ...  25% powder by volume seems to work as well as any .. but more moly makes stiffer lube ...

at least for my normal 1300-1600 fps plinking velocities, just glistening the bullet as i pick it up to seat it seems to be enough ...  in my accurate 22rf, more than glisten caused bigger groups ...

i buy high quality moly powder from McMaster-Carr ... i use the dry powder on sliding surface applications ... the stuff embeds in metal and makes a protective layer about one molecule thick ...  ( i embed the moly in the spindle bearings in my hobby lathe .. ) ...

also fantastic for lubing gun actions at 20 below temps .. clean off grease, apply dry moly powder.  same as " DrySlide " sold in gun shops.

oh, a funny side effect is that your bullet holes have less smudge on the paper targets ...

and then also some shooters don't want to embed moly in their barrels ...  the thought is the " sulphide " component could cause detrimental effects ... i run an " Ed's Red " type patch through my barrels after shooting just in case, but so far ( 35 years ) no corrosion on the patches.

lastly, as JohnA says, since less lube is better, maybe no lube is terrific ?? ...

ken

oh, when i was using it on rimfire match bullets after wiping the original lube off ...   .... i only glistened every third bullet ...  lubing every bullet made bigger groups.  maybe we are conditioning the barrel not the bullets.

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Shopdog posted this 23 August 2020

Re: lube amounts;

Less is more(velocity) has been my experience. I call it the "big 6" but it's given name is 6mm Remington,or 6mmR for short. It's been the attention for the last cpl months here.

Using a brandy new,only had one cast on it,Saeco 6mm 85g mould. It's a truncated cone with a tapered nose,bore ride section. Recorded all the #'s on the dropped bullets and CRS but,they are pretty durn spot on. GC gets a "dip" in the Lyman H die,just far enough that it gets crimped,no deeper. A quick roll/spin size cleaning each edge of the single lube groove leaves a knurl as the telltale after the trimming result of this OP. One of these days will make a video for utube on this process. Have taken and posted many pics on other sites,can't on this one,and won't on others. But the knurls really hold lube,just like 22 RF and "swaged" 38 WC's..... they're rolled to form the knurls too.

I went through the load tests with H4895.... right about where the pressure started to open up groups.... switched to IMR4350. Usually interjecting Varget in before the 4350 but supply is dwindling on Varget. Then,ran 4350 with a wee bit of dacron up until starting JB loads with the 85g,dropping the dacron. Accuracy picked up a tiny bit at this point but was back to pressure upsetting the bullet too much.

Now,am at the 40+ grains of 4350 and just recently changed gears again to IMR4831. Each change of powder speed brings more velocity at lower pressure. Oh,it's a little(lot) more to it but now to the point;

Lube was only applied to the tiny spot above GC..... but,after loading and QC checking,I add LLA to the nose and knurling on the exposed part of bullet. One medium coat,no more,none less. I can't speak if it's making any difference on accuracy because.... not gonna change to a different lube. Honestly,there's so little it ain't worth it it. The accuracy isn't "bughole" yet but is pretty good.

The LLA does make a noticeable difference though. But is hard to pin down mainly because of the burn rate shifts in powder. Each "shift" sees sorta the same action though.

An initial drop in pressure,LLA not as needed. But go up the scale with that powder and the LLA will maintain acc a touch longer. I reckon you could view it as a pressure enabler? Just like powder character changes with space/time/pressure,me thinks LLA does as well. One reason it,and more conventional lubed for that matter ...... can work for one guy,fail with the next. So LLA could be replaced with BLL or some other wipe on. You just have to pay attention.

I shoot almost every week day. Weekends are for other stuff. Sorry for the ramblings,y'all have a great day.

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barra posted this 24 August 2020

depressed Errgh 

I got a bout a 4" group off a wonky rest at 100 yards with 2 grns bulleye with out the Dacron pea to keep the powder from going every where if I had too take a round out.

with the Dacron I figure 900 fps without 815 fps.

according to a calculations between 50 and 100 yards.

 I can barely make out the black centre at 100.

so please be gentle with me.

I believe with this fixed ammo I may do well.

 I may try less lube and see thou.

And lash out more recklessly with the powder.

‘Maybe 2-3k rounds per lb of bulleye.

Ha

Thnx.

I Think moley will end up everywhere except where I want if I use it.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 August 2020

barra ...  i like your target ... to me it spells fun ...

i actually like 6 inch groups, cause then i have something to improve and feel good ..

usually if i get a gun to shoot 1.5 inch groups i can't get it better and get depressed and go to a gun that i can improve.

on the moly .. yep, it sticks to and imbeds into everything, including your skin and T-shirt and your wife's bath towels ...  i am not sure it actually ever comes out of barrels ... good ? ... bad ? ... don't remove with solvents, just soap and water.

let us follow your heeled bullet adventures ... remember 22rf are heeled and they lead a good life ...

ken

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barra posted this 25 August 2020

Please spare me.

I would be lucky to survive the onslaught if I actually shot bug holes with it.

I still begrudge the days when I have not been disallowed  to shoot in an event and outperformed the anointed experts With those cast and god forbid paper patched bullets.

The retaliation can and has lasted for years.

 

 

I think I may have to cast up another batch of bullets.

This time without flaws and see how they go.

ha 

 

 

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