I went to open an old can of IMR 4198 that had been previously opened. Rusty red dust emanated when I poured it into the powder measure. What is the consensus on handling this powder? Do I just separate the powder from the rust or fertilize the lawn with it? My intended use will be in reduced loads in .30-06 following Ed Harris' article "America's Greatest, All-Around .30-'06."
Dale M. Lock
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Fertilize the lawn is my vote.
Dale Flinchum
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Fertilizer. I believe you would be dealing with a great unknown if you were to load it. Metal dust does burn, quite explosively. Oxidized metal dust, not sure. Would it harm the barrel? Would it act as an inert additive or as an accelerant? Anybody's guess might be correct.
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Pour it in the yard. The rust is a sure sign that the powder is decomposing, a foul or acidic smell or "dust" is another if it is in a plastic jug. Powder doesn’t have to be OLD to decompose. I had a can of powder go bad in two years, 3100 I think was the number. Poor manufacturing practices is the main problem, it’s very hard to get the residual acid out of the powder. I had a can of salvaged IMR 17 ½ that didn’t go bad according to the load card in the bandoliers till it was well over 80 years old.
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Dump it.
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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Been down this road with IMR4320 and was never able to make anything useful out of it. It was in sealed cans less than ten years old.
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I was so excited to receive 2 still sealed cans of DuPont SR4759 from a friend. I opened them and poured some into a pan and was greeted by the red dust and the acrid smell of death. Yep, it was scattered on the lawn and watered by my tears! Not worth taking any chances.
Wayne
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My friend and myself shared a large tin of 2201 powder,not sure of the weight,it was about a 4 gallon can.We used a lot initialy then slowed down on the use of it,After many years it developed rust,Unwilling to throw a few pounds of powder away we waited for a windy day,laid a sheet on the path then poured the powder slowly from about three or four feet height onto the sheet,letting the breeze blow.away the rust.We then bottled the clean powder into plastic powder containers,I used my share for cast bullet loads in 303 British,308 and 30-06 rifles.I didn’t try any jacketed bullet loads,as I had moved to newer powder for my target loads,as well I was cautious that the powder would have dryed out and become faster.
I do know of a friend that has thrown out powder,if I remember correctly,it was fuming when he lifted the lid,that one was heaved out the door into the garden and hosed down.
That was my experience.
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The red dust isn’t rust, it is decomposing powder.
After you spread it thinly over the lawn get a copy of Hatchers Notebook and read it cover to cover, or at least the sections on powder.
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FERTILIZER 101!
Had some old 3031 estate sale powder (in metal cans). Initially good/good results. However, at some point, it degraded. Had some issues/wasn't aware of the degradation. Then, my cousin, whom I had gifted some to, asked about the red/rust dust in the powder. Light came on. Explained the issues I had had with loaded rounds/duds.
Told him - dump the powder. Did the same - AND had to pull about 100 various caliber rounds with suspect powder.
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This is definitely rust. It clings to a magnet and blows away when you dump it into a plastic pan outside. It does not smell or otherwise appear discolored.
Dale M. Lock
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I just noticed title should be Rust IN Powder, not "is". Sorry for any confusion. It is definitely rust. I have now shot 20 rounds of 21 grains IMT 4198 through my 06 with pull down flat base FMJ's. Very mild load with no pressure signs, no unburned powder and normal report. This IMR 4198 powder is in steel cans. I have five pounds which I bought for this purpose. Now to try cast bullets with the same load. Thanks for all the replies.
Dale M. Lock
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Fertilizer. Definitely. The thumb, fingers. and eyes you save may be your own. I was next to a Savage 12BVSS that blew up due to Secondary Explosion Effect. The design of that action saved the shooter but I was wounded by flying action parts. A heavy shooting coat saved me from major damage.
I believe you would be dealing with a great unknown if you were to load it. - Several unknowns. The free-radical nitrogen compounds in the mixture while the powder is combusting can be either a reduction agent or an oxidizing agent, varying in this role from shot to shot.
Metal dust does burn, quite explosively. - Yes, and there are enough oxidants in the mixture from the powder to aid the the explosiveness. Organometallic compounds were used in the main guns of battleships to reduce the flash. This shielded the gunners eyes while sighting and helped keep the enemy from precisely locating you. This was determined in controlled experiments in a lab and field tested many times before use.
Oxidized metal dust, not sure. - Even more explosive since the small particles offer more surface area per volume.
Would it harm the barrel?- Not noticeably from shot to shot but the more intense heat will wear the leade far faster.
Would it act as an inert additive or as an accelerant? - You won't know until you pull the trigger and the variant can change from shot to shot.
Anybody's guess might be correct. - And it will be a guess.
Few people realize the immense amount of research and experimentation in the century and one-half since the 1870's that have gone into our current powder selections. We're the lucky recipient of much experimentation. Getting too far away from published data is like playing Russian Roulette with a submachine gun,
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Clod Hopper,
I have long been a major fan of Ed Harris's work, wherever I can find it. How could i locate
America's Greatest, All-Around .30-'06." ?
It sounds like a great read!
Thanks much,
John
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Goto: hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm Lots of useful information.
Dale M. Lock
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