Powder Valley has Blackhorn 209 for muzzle loaders for a mere $88.99.... for 8 ounces. But if you order 2 you get free shipping! I was bemoaning the price of actual black powder and what it costs to feed my bevy of Sharps, Sniders, Martini Henry's, 12.7 Swede etc. Now it seems like the Swiss 1.5f is the bargin of the month but for some reason, I don't really feel better. So I guess it can get worse and sympathize a little more with our foreign members who really feel the bite.
Scott Ingle
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I was going to try some of this in cartridges until I saw the price. Unbelievable.
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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I use real black powder in my traditional guns but was using Blackhorn in my inlines. Guess I won't be doing that anymore at 88 bucks for a few ounces. Has anyone tried the Shooters World sub?
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I am about to give it a try in the 38-55 first. Have you loaded any yet?
I got this to shoot "black" in the Schofield since it is supposed to burn a lot cleaner. I can only get 12 shots with Black or Pyrodex before the works gums up completely. I'll let ya know how it works. I have to cast some 40 caliber bullets first.
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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I figured at that price, they could hang on to it for awhile. If you're trying it, I hope it works. I've heard Scofields have that issue with black powder loads and it seems like there were some youtube videos that were trying to solve it. If I run across them I'll try to post a link because I'm thinking it was In-range or Forgotten weapons.
Scott Ingle
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Schofield revolvers of modern manufacture DO have issues with BP due to longer chambers precluding the use of a base pin baffle. About all you will get with BP is 12 shots. You can squirt some oil down there and get another cylinder off but that's about it. Even packing with grease does not work since the grease gets blown away.
I just shot some MP Black in the 38-55 1894 rifle. It smokes like black but does not smell. Recoil was like shooting BP. There was no stink or fouling in the bore. It leaves a grayish deposit. Barrel cleaned beautifully with a few runs of moose milk and a patch. Very easy to clean. I will of course take another look at that bore in a few days.
Now the interesting part. When I knocked the primers out of the fired cases, a bunch of residue was in the cases. It reminded me of the paper residue left in Cap & Ball revolvers when shooting paper cartridges. It knocked out easy when I inverted the cases and rapped them on the loading bench. The residue was very 3 dimensional and was tubular and broken. It crushed very easily into a carbon smear for lack of a better word.
After washing the cases with water, the inside was bright and clean, unlike the black finish imparted by BP. I am impressed with it so far and the experimentation continues.
BTW, I used 35.5gr in the Starline 2.125" cases right up to the base of the Badman 230gr Bullet.
Here is the carbon residue tapped out of the cases. It got flattened by the white paper sheet walking into the house.
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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Another choice for the Schofield in BP loads. Grafs and Natchez both show Shooters World Black for about $35/#. Reviews seem to show it's pretty clean so a possible alternative. That residue is unexpected but at everything cleans up easily.
Scott Ingle
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Thanks Scott. That's the main reason I bought it. I need to cast up some 44 caliber pills to test it out in the 44-40 Schofield. Have you tried it in yours yet?
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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Not yet. I'm waiting until I can put a larger order together to cut the hazmat costs. If they got some SW Buffalo I would really be a happy camper and ordering a lot quicker.
Scott Ingle
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Another choice for the Schofield in BP loads. Grafs and Natchez both show Shooters World Black for about $35/#. Reviews seem to show it's pretty clean so a possible alternative. That residue is unexpected but at everything cleans up easily.
it's same as Alliant Black MZ and is wonderful powder.i hoarded the MZ when Sportsman's was selling it out fur $10 per pound.
it's my favorite in my Ruger Old Armies.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Had an interesting development with Multi-Purpose Black from Shooters World. I was loading this into the 44-40 cartridges to prevent cylinder binding on the Schofield revolver. The experiment failed and I also got some interesting things to tell you.
1. The cylinder binding still occurred after 6 rounds but it may not be the crud building up. The hammer would cock, the cylinder would slightly index, and the hand would ride over the spur if not assisted by hand. I think the issue is the raised metal on the recoil shield like almost all of the Uberti revolvers have. When the next inline chamber is indexing, the case rim binds up on that high spot. I have had to remove that from almost all of the Uberti revolvers to allow smooth indexing. That being said, it is worrisome that the hand is riding up over the star spur. That will take some analysis.
2. I had mentioned previously that there is residue remaining in the cases after firing. It resembles the residue remaining in a C&B revolver shooting paper cartridges. There is an image above of that residue. It's not a powder, it's 3-dimensional and fluffy. Today after firing 18 cartridges in the Schofield, I placed the cases into a tumbler with corncob media. I did not add any polishing goop to the media so it was rather dry. When I removed the cases, they were FULL of media which had to be knocked out of the cases. Note that the 44 Mag cases in there as well did not retain any media. The media that remained in the 44-40 cases had to be scraped out with a screwdriver. The media in the cases was moist as well. How and where it got enough moisture to clump together is unknown. I ended up having to wash the cases as if I had used BP to make the cartridges.
3. Although each cartridge was filled with MP Black by hand, and each charge was individually weighed, recoil and report varied among the 18 cartridges by as much as 50%. Again like Pyrodex, the loading instructions are contradictory. Shooters World lists a "Never Exceed" charge for the 44-40 of 21 grains. They also state the charge, like Black Powder, must be to the base of the bullet. Filling the cases to the base of the bullet whereby the bullet "kissed" the charge needed 24.4 grains. It was evident the velocity was all over the place and the string variation was excessive. I was NOT impressed with that live firing and questionable consistency.
To say I am underwhelmed with the variable performance and the odd residue, the adhering and grossly hygroscopic nature of the residue, at the exceptionally high price of the product, is an understatement. I really wish Shooters World and Hodgdon would make up their minds about cartridge load data for Pyrodex and Multi-Purpose Black, but I doubt they will. If there ever was an argument to use plain old Black Powder, this is it. There was NO improvement with the use of this product and in fact, it took more steps to clean the cases.
So.....Heads Up if you are pondering the use of this product in your cartridge cases. Perhaps you will have a more favorable experience than I did.
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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I've loaded Black MZ and only one metallic.Cartridge ,my 310 Cadet. I had no issues but then again it's a single shot.No other issues in cap and ball revolvers or Caplock rifles.Ive burned about 20# of the stuff.Maybe the Shooters World is slightly different?
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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From all I understand it is made by American Pioneer Powder and "supposedly" the same stuff. I read it on the internet.It has to be true....
And then there's the possibility that it just reacts differently in certain applications.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Black MZ is an Alliant powder. Multi Purpose Black is made by American Pioneer Powder for Shooters World. They may be differing chemical compositions. I do not know who may actually manufacture the Alliant propellant and if they are actually the same propellant labeled differently. Who knows anymore?
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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After pulling the SDS for the products, the only real difference is the carbon source. Alliant uses Carbon Black and American Pioneer uses Charcoal. There IS a significant difference between Carbon Black and Charcoal.
Black MZ:
Multi Purpose Black:
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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Black MZ is an Alliant powder. Multi Purpose Black is made by American Pioneer Powder for Shooters World. They may be differing chemical compositions. I do not know who may actually manufacture the Alliant propellant and if they are actually the same propellant labeled differently. Who knows anymore?
Black MZ was always made by APP for Alliant. I think APP sold it originally and called it Clean Shot or something?
The changes you show do make sense why the Shooters World isn't working as well as the MZ does for me.I still have 25# of the stuff.
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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