New to 45-70

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Detent178 posted this 12 November 2025

Hello from the UK.

I am relatively new to rifle shooting and have an interest in shooting historic rifles. Over in the UK we must apply for a firearms certificate before we can purchase firearms. I hope to shoot a Winchester 1886 in 45-70 (the Miroku copy) at 200-300 yards, and also 45-70 as a single shot, hopefully as an 1885 high wall / falling block, to greater distances. I am currently on a reloading course and hope to load my own 45-70 ammunition to keep things affordable and improve performance. I have a great deal to learn and hope that I might be able to draw on the experience of others through this forum

I also have an old Winchester 1886 in 40-65, in good condition, that I hope to put to use at some point, once it has been put on a firearms certificate.

Cheers

Mike

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RicinYakima posted this 12 November 2025

Welcome Mike!

Enjoy the site, as there is a lot of 45/70 experience here.

Ric in Yakima, Washington

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Detent178 posted this 12 November 2025

Thanks Ric!

I have a great deal to learn.

Mike, Northumberland, UK

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Aaron posted this 13 November 2025

Welcome to the forum Mike. There is a LOT of experience on here with both the 45-70 and the rifles you mentioned. Will you be shooting smokeless powder or Black Powder cartridges? Will you be using paper jackets on the bullets?

The loading and shooting of this wonderful cartridge has many faucets. You will be learning for the next several decades. It just keeps getting better!

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 13 November 2025

Oh yes....forgot to mention. Thanks for the BBC and BritBox. I was planning to move to Midsomer but didn't want to end up dead.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Bud Hyett posted this 13 November 2025

Welcome! There is a wealth of information on the .45-70 Government cartridge, I would get your beginning data here as we're shooters and not readers. With years of loading cast bullets for several rifles, I have some very strong prejudices.

Questions:

Are you shooting black powder, smokeless powder, or both?
What alloys do you have available?
What sights are you using, scope, irons, or both?
Do you want sample loadings or simply techniques?

Note: I'd start with the RCBS 45-300-FN or RCBS 45-335-FNU molds. You'll need to shoot a lot of bullets at the beginning and the cumulative recoil effect at the end of a day shooting 500 grain bullets is considerable.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Detent178 posted this 13 November 2025

Thanks everyone! It might be helpful to outline how it works here in theUK.

I have only been shooting rifles for the last year having really only used shotguns previously. The way it works here in the UK is that you must join a UK Government Home Office-approved club. Everyone starts with safety-training and gallery shooting with 0.22 BA and SA rifles. I then had to sit an NRA course and test on the principles of firearm handling, safety etc. It was fun. Once a month the club has access to a military range where we shoot at 200 - 300 yards with larger caliber rifles, mainly .308's. Other ranges that allow longer range shooting are accessible, once you have your firearm licence.

Many of the members have an interest in historic rifles, but none currently in black powder shooting. I am very interested in the J M Browning designs. The Club Secretary has been been very supportive, instructing me in the principles of reloading and will help guide me once I am in the position to start on 45-70, though it is not a caliber he currently shoots.

I expect to receive my firearms certificate in the next few weeks. On this certificate will be a description of the caliber and actions I wish to acquire, which includes a 45-70 falling block single-shot (I hope to find a 1885 Browning-designed falling block single-shot) and a 45-70 lever-action repeater (which will be a modern 1886 Winchester / Miroku).

I will have to start out with smokeless loads, but would like to explore using blackpowder at some stage. In the UK this will mean acquiring an explosives licence.

Through club members I hope to get access to type face alloys and lead for casting.

I am keen to get some recommendations on:-

- Bullet sizes /suitable moulds for 45-70

- Recommended alloys and hardness. Any need for gas checks?

- Suitable smokeless powders and loads for a modern 1886. BP will come later.

- At this stage, I hope to be target shooting at short distances of up to 200yds, but this will hopefully increase (what will a decent 1886 with 24" barrel handle?)

- I am aiming to continue with peep sights, hopefully globe foresight and rear receiver / tang ladder sights.

- I am a bit of an old git, age 65 and reliant on varifocal corrective glasses. I have also had experience using scopes.

I hope this gives the picture!

Regards

Mike

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Aaron posted this 13 November 2025

That's a long drawn out process but at least the option is open to get yourself a rifle.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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MP1886 posted this 14 November 2025

It's too long and there's too much to tell you all of it here. I will touch on the important things. I have an 1886 45-70 carbine made by Miroku for Browning. Thus my handle (name here). I do two most important things. One is that I only size the neck portion of the case that the bullet will be seated in. Why? One it helps the case to last longer and not get neck split. It doesn't work the brass as much. Also the the cartridge fits the chamber better. Two, size your bullets the fattest that will allow the loaded cartridge to chamber. You will find that is going to be somethere around .462. I'm not going to say what my rifle shoots at very long distances because I'll just unfortunetly get ridiculed here, but I will tell you those two things improved the accuracy immensely and also helping my brass to live longer. By the way I made the die to just size the bullet holding area of the case.

The other members can fill you in on powders and what alloys to use. Good luck with your new rifle and I'm sorry you have to go through all the hoops and loops to be able to own it. It's eventually coming to the states.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 14 November 2025

my opinions follow;

if shooting will be mostly from a bench, choose a single shot over a lever action ... and yes a m1885 type over a ruger ... just for class ... but a Ruger is a close second.

my ruger 3 in 45-70 is one of my most favorite rifles to shoot ... not because it is the most fun ... nor most accurate ... but because the cartridge is nostalgically and historically interesting ... ok, and because it does a mighty whack to a soda can ...

when i first got my R3, i shot one full factory 500 gr,. load ... owch !! ... never more ... next a lot of 230 gr. castings for the Ruger Old Army pistol... these are slightly too undersized but bounced a whole lot of pop cans into the neighbor's alfalfa field ...

for an upgrade in accuracy but still something i can painlessly shoot 40 of in one afternoon ... i settled on a 405 gr. plain base cast and 22 to 25 gr. of 2400 powder. btw, a buddy borrowed my gun and one-shot dropped a deer, front to back penetration, and broke the deer's rear leg on the way out ... so a little above the pop-gun range ...

as far as reloading cast ... rule one is that the bullet should be as snug in the THROAT as possible .... after rule one, it drops off sharply ... heh ... anybody can write the next 20 rules and have as good a chance at being correct as any ... my own rule 2 is to size the neck the least amount possible ... and with a single shot that can be hardly any ...

shooting cast is playing house rules ... makes it fun ...

ken

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Bud Hyett posted this 16 November 2025

I will have to start out with smokeless loads, but would like to explore using blackpowder at some stage. In the UK this will mean acquiring an explosives license. - My favorite powders are; Unique and Reloder#7, but have also used Alliant 2400 and IMR 3031.

Through club members I hope to get access to type face alloys and lead for casting. - I use the following alloy for smokeless: 92-PB/4-SB/2-SN, I use 20:1 PB/SN for black powder. Brinell hardness 11 to 14 works best for smokeless.

I am keen to get some recommendations on:

Bullet sizes /suitable moulds for 45-70:

RCBS 45-300-FN, drops at .459 and I size in a .460 die simply to lubricate. Gas check bullet for higher velocity
RCBS 45-335-FNU, drops at .459 and I size in a .460 die simply to lubricate. Plain base practice bullet for 1100 feet-per-second velocity
RCBS 45-405-FN, drops at .459 and I size in a .460 die simply to lubricate. My hunting bullet.
SAECO 1881, drops at .459 and I size in a .460 die simply to lubricate. This is for black powder.

Recommended alloys and hardness. See above

Any need for gas checks? - No. When you're getting to gas check velocity, the recoil builds up quickly and the enjoyment leaves with it.

Suitable smokeless powders and loads for a modern 1886. See above

BP will come later. Swiss 1 1/2 Fg

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Detent178 posted this 18 November 2025

Dear All,

Thank you all for your advice, for which I am very grateful. It will allow me to get started.

I think that I might have found a Browning 1885 Highwall, in 45-70, with a 26" barrel. It comes with both tang vernier sights, and scope. Looking at the serial number, it appears to have been made in 1996. I have not yet inspected the rifle, but will do so as soon as my permit appears.

Fingers crossed!

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LApm9 posted this 18 November 2025

Welcome!

Please heed the above advice about full power loads! The recoil might not seem too much the first day, but you will feel the effects the second.

Start out modestly and see if the trajectory is acceptable at lower levels. Also mind the fact that the M1886 is not as strong as the highwall.

Bob .45-70 & .30-30

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Lucky1 posted this 19 November 2025

One thing I heartily recommend for any 45-70 shooter is a slip on recoil pad and a Past shoulder pad for anything more than a few rounds. They make some slip ons out of leather (or something that looks like it) so they don't detract too much from a vintage rifle and they aren't permanent. I don't know what's available over there so you'll have to do some research. And a shotgun style butt will be much nicer than a crescent one.

Scott Ingle

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cbaMollyy42 posted this 19 November 2025

A great magazine is the ' BPCR News' by Wolf publishing. The back issues are invaluable to a blackpowder cartridge shooter. Everything that pertains to shooting 45/70 and other great old cartridges in the single shot rifles is written about.

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Detent178 posted this 19 November 2025

Thanks for this, I will chase it up

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Eddie Southgate posted this 21 November 2025

Buy all of the Lovex D060 powder you can find if it is still available over there.

Grumpy Old Man With A Gun......Do Not Touch .

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tlkeizer posted this 09 December 2025

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum. I have embarked on shooting original "trapdoor" 45-70's as I inherited 2 from my grandfather years ago. If you look up my name you will find my journey as I entered it in the forum. For light loads I cast Lee 405 grain hollow base bullets, for heavy bullets I use a 500 grain mold. I use SPG bullet lube and pan lube. Normally I use FFG black powder, but have gone slightly into smokeless powders, and used 3031 with modest success. Considering my rifles are Models 1773 and model 1881, their barrels have a bit of wear. I sleeved the 1773, went with the original twist, and can regularly hold 5 shots at 100 yard in the palm of my hand with either rifle, heart of caribou or heart of moose. I second the using a slip on recoil pad, and or shoulder pad for much shooting. Have fun.

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tlkeizer posted this 13 December 2025

Greetings,

Digging out my logs, these are some of the loads I have used. All use CCI 200 primers, pan lubed with SPG.

H 4198, 27 and 29 grains powder, 405/420/440 grain bullets, good accuracy 27.5 grain powder with 440 grain bullet.

ACC 5744, 27-28.5 grain, 440 grain bullet.

ACC 5744, 26.5 gain powder, 500 grain bullet.

IMR 4064, kicked hard, poor accuracy for me.

H 3031, 36 grains powder, 405, 420 grain bullets. Fair to good accuracy.

The 440 grain bullet is from a mold I had made for me.

I hope this does you some good.

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Detent178 posted this 3 days ago

Ok, I now have my Browning/Miroku 1885 in 45-70. I have fired it down the range using Hornady Leverevolution ammunition (I think with a 325 grain bullet, with rubber tip). I was impressed, though so far I have only been able to zero it at 100yards. Most of gthe time it will be shot at 200yds, and 300yds infrequently.

I have a Lyman 457643BV mould (flat nose), and the possibility of buying a Lyman 457658 (round/pointed) 480g.

Cases are fine but powders are very difficult to source here. The usuals, e.g. A5744, Reloder #7 and Lovex D060, are no longer available. I can however, get some Vihtavuori N130 or N133 powder.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience reloading with these cast bullets, using N130? I can also get Ramshot X-Terminator.

The other question I have is what is the actual CUP limit for this rifle. Reloading data gives information for Springfield Trapdoor, Winchester 1886, and then the single-shots like the Ruger # 1 & 3. I cannot imagine that I would be heading north of the loads used for the 1886, but wonder if anyone out there knows about the Miroku/Browning 1885. The manual recommends factory ammunition.

I am keen to just get started safely.

Regards

Mike