N340 vs. 2400

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  • Last Post 06 December 2024
Glenn R. Latham posted this 12 October 2024

Got hold of some VV N340 that was recommended by VihtaVuori as a 2400 replacement  (see  https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/current-powder-prices/).  I tried it in my Remington 1903-A3 (4-groove) and my Finn M39 in 7.62x54R.  The Finn has a 6x scope for Modified Scope class, the 'A3 is as-issued.  I'm no great shakes as an iron sight shooter, so maybe the groups don't mean a whole lot, but here's the results (one 10-shot group for each load).

1903-A3 (314299 cast of WW+Sn)

A-2400  17.0 grs.  314299 210 grs. 1515 fps (appx)  5.43"

VV N340 14.0 grs.  314299 210 grs. 1433 fps  2.63"

VV N340 15.0 grs.  314299 210 grs. 1493 fps  3.38"

I hadn't shot the rifle since April and so the first 2 shots with 2400 (no fouler) were the group size.  It settled down a bit after that and put nine in 3.84".  The smallest 10-shot group I've managed with this rifle is 2.28".

I also tried the Hoch 310-185 bullet cast of linotype:

A-2400  17.0 grs. 1619 fps.  2.53"

VV N340 14.0 grs. 1540 fps. 3.31"

For the M-39 Finn I also used the 314299 but cast of linotype and sized .312", weight 196 grs.  I had shot this rifle for the Military match the Thursday before the CBA National Tournament and had some ammo left over from that.

VV N110 17.0 grs. 1574 fps.  2.02"

A-2400 16.0 grs. 1550 fps.  2.65" (9 in 1.91")

VV N340 14.0 grs. 1523 fps. 2.22"

Standard deviation for all loads ran from 5 to 11 fps, so all the loads burned well.  I typically use large pistol primers in my "modern" rifles and large rifle primers in my military rifles, but out of habit grabbed the WLP's for all these loads, so rifle primers might make a difference.  Cartridges were carefully chambered with the powder to the rear of the case for uniformity.

Glenn

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Lucky1 posted this 12 October 2024

Thanks Glenn! Over here in SD we have been looking for 2400 substitutes since it was MIA. It has just shown up again at 400 bucks for 8 pounds which makes the VV powders pretty competitive. This thread helps alot to work on the new loads.

Scott Ingle

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Eutectic posted this 14 October 2024

Glenn,
That is a useful comparison .

I used 2400 by the keg years ago as I loaded the magnums to full velocity. This changed as I got older and maybe smarter.

I have used N340, 3N37 and N105 in 357 and 44 pistol loads. This is in order of burning rates, N340 being the fastest. I first bought N340 as a replacement for Herco, which disappeared years ago.The VV powders were expensive but AVAILABLE.

Most of my "magnum " loads are mild and 2400 does not burn clean in reduced loads. Ten grains of N340 under any ~250 grain cast bullet gets you 1100 fps, clean burning and accurate shooting. 3N37 is a tad slower, I did not seen any big advantages to 3N37, when my supply ran out I did not replace it.

N105 is close to 2400 and 15.0 grains gives 1200 fps to 429421 in my 5" 629. I will try N105 in the 308 when I get time. N110 is slower and from your data maybe a closer replacement for 2400.

Magnum primers are not recommend with VV powders and I found they gave no advantage in pistol loads.

Speed comparison is not equal as 2400 is double base and VV powders are single base. The burning speed/ pressure curve is steeper with double base powders. 

Steve

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Dukem posted this 19 October 2024

I bought a lb.of Vihtavuori N110 to test/try. I loaded 17.0 grains of it in FC .308 brass shooting a 160 grain cast bullet and got 1,750 fps. 16.5 grains of Hercules 2400 gives me 1,750 fps with the same bullet. I then bought an 8 lb. jug of N110.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 11 November 2024

Did some more comparison testing in the 03-A3.  Remembered to use WLR this time.  Except as noted, powder was positioned to the rear of the case.  Temperature ran from 45° to 55° this day.

Hoch 185 gr. linotype

A-2400  15.0 grs.  1479 fps

N-110    16.0 grs.  1484 fps

N-340   13.0 grs.  1476 fps

Lyman 314299 210 gr. WW+Sn  3.48" oal

N-340  14.0 grs.  1440 fps  (powder back)

N-340  14.0 grs   1425 fps  (powder forward)

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1478 fps (powder back)

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1441 fps (powder forward)

N-110   17.0 grs.  1484 fps

Lyman 314299 196 grs. linotype  3.30" oal

N-110  17.0 grs.  1532 fps

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1517 fps

HM2 311-160-5 WW 165 grs.

N340 13.0 grs.  1538 fps

A-2400 15.0 grs. 1537 fps

N-110   16.0 grs.  1509 fps

Note the 314299 cast of linotype had to be seated quite a bit deeper than those cast of wheel weights because of the fatter nose.  Between that and the lighter weight velocities were a bit higher.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 11 November 2024

Here's the groups from the A-2400 test with the powder forward and back in the case.  The left group is with the powder forward in the case, the right group with the powder to the back.  Don't know if we can really pin anything down with just one group each way, but maybe something to test further.  40 fps didn't seem to make any difference in POI.  The left group actually had a lower standard deviation of velocity, 8 vs. 14.  But my iron sight shooting leaves a lot to be desired...

Glenn

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Rockydoc posted this 11 November 2024

Looks like a tuft of Dacron to keep the powder back against the primer might be a good thing with 2400?

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Ross Smith posted this 12 November 2024

Glad to see someone besides me likes the Hoch 310-185. I'll try some of your loads in my 1903.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 12 November 2024

It's a great bullet, Ross!  That extra band at the base of the nose really helps.

Glenn

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Coydog posted this 14 November 2024

 

By this data , it looks like that you use 2 grains less of 2400  compare to N340 . Would that be the normal load for use ?  Just wondering .

 

 

 

Did some more comparison testing in the 03-A3.  Remembered to use WLR this time.  Except as noted, powder was positioned to the rear of the case.  Temperature ran from 45° to 55° this day.

Hoch 185 gr. linotype

A-2400  15.0 grs.  1479 fps

N-110    16.0 grs.  1484 fps

N-340   13.0 grs.  1476 fps

Lyman 314299 210 gr. WW+Sn  3.48" oal

N-340  14.0 grs.  1440 fps  (powder back)

N-340  14.0 grs   1425 fps  (powder forward)

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1478 fps (powder back)

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1441 fps (powder forward)

N-110   17.0 grs.  1484 fps

Lyman 314299 196 grs. linotype  3.30" oal

N-110  17.0 grs.  1532 fps

A-2400 16.0 grs.  1517 fps

HM2 311-160-5 WW 165 grs.

N340 13.0 grs.  1538 fps

A-2400 15.0 grs. 1537 fps

N-110   16.0 grs.  1509 fps

Note the 314299 cast of linotype had to be seated quite a bit deeper than those cast of wheel weights because of the fatter nose.  Between that and the lighter weight velocities were a bit higher.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 15 November 2024

Coydog, two grains less of the N340 than 2400 for about the same velocity.

Glenn

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Coydog posted this 15 November 2024

Coydog, two grains less of the N340 than 2400 for about the same velocity.

Glenn

 

Ok that will help . Thanks for your help

 

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wimilkman posted this 15 November 2024

I have found Ram Shot Enforcer/Accurate4100 to be a great replacement for 2400 I was using 2400 in 357 magnum, 44 magnum and 454 Casull I have now used 3 lbs of Enforcer/4100 and most likely will not go back to 2400 if it becomes available again.

Fred H.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 15 November 2024

Fred,

   I usually shy away from ball/spherical powders in reduced CB loads.  Their heavy deterrent coating sometimes causes ignition problems.  However, the other day I was looking at my powder options for the 03-A3 and saw I had a nearly full jug of surplus WC820.  I think it was used in 30 Carbine ammo, and there were several different lots sold thru surplus dealers.  The one I have is one of the "faster" lots, about the equivalent of AA#9.  I tried a load yesterday in the 03-A3 with the 210 gr. 314299 and got my first 10-shot group under 2" with the rifle- 1.71".  Of course the powder was carefully tipped to the back of the case.  I would not use it in a "field" load where powder position could be anywhere.  I guess I'll have to test it some more.

Glenn

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Coydog posted this 17 November 2024

I have found Ram Shot Enforcer/Accurate4100 to be a great replacement for 2400 I was using 2400 in 357 magnum, 44 magnum and 454 Casull I have now used 3 lbs of Enforcer/4100 and most likely will not go back to 2400 if it becomes available again.
How is this for compare to weight to weight of both? is it equal or less of one then the other or more ?  

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wimilkman posted this 06 December 2024

Weight wise you use close to the same charges I will have to look in my load book , I keep a 3 ring notebook of loads I shoot and like with notes /data by caliber . I am currently out of town but when I get back in 2 weeks I’ll reply back again on the charges I used of 2400 vs Enforcer/4100.
Fred

Fred H.

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