MORE TWIST

  • 830 Views
  • Last Post 22 August 2018
joeb33050 posted this 30 July 2018

Just back from the range, M110 Savage barrel, Hornady 55 gr fmjbt cannelure;

7/Titegroup, 5 shots in 7"

8.5/Titegroup, 5 shots in 4.75"

and NO tipping.

This twist/stability business gets stranger the more I shoot. 

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 30 July 2018

... didja happen to shoot a few " known good " loads ...    my tikka/ithica 308 shoots only about 6 moa with gov't bullets that look just like those hornadys ....

ken

Attached Files

Scearcy posted this 30 July 2018

Unfortunately stable bullets do not guarantee accuracy. I have never had much luck with the Hornady FMJ but do have to agree that a 7" group is noteworthy.  Keep going! It is nice to see data.

I just opened my 5th box of 6MM gas checks since I bought my first 243 Thanksgiving week of 2016. Since my first "accurate" 243 has a 260 mm twist, I spent the first 15 months trying to find a way around the basic principles of stabilizing a bullet. I learned alot but I was not able to answer all of my questions. I was also unable to circumvent the mathematics. I have 5 different molds which produce bullets which fit one or more of my current crop of 243s. Only 2 or 3 combos produce good accuracy and in all cases the twist rate suits the bullet. Velocity, within our normal cast bullet ranges, never helped stabilize a bullet as much as I expected (hoped).

Jim

Attached Files

OU812 posted this 30 July 2018

The Sierra 52 grain match bullets shoot well in my 223 rifles using Titegroup. I also like using Moly coating to reduce copper fouling.

Attached Files

Scearcy posted this 31 July 2018

Hornady 50 gr Vmax seem to shoot well in every rifle also.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 31 July 2018

i did not mean to disparage hornady in my above query ... in fact, me here and my rifles mostly favor hornady bullets.   i was just wandering that perhaps hornady ... and others .... pay a little less attention to bullets meant for bulk use by the pray and spray foks.   i once had a box of perfect-looking mj 224 bullets that shot 6 moa in my remmy 222 that otherwise never shot over 1.5 moa in it's life.

ken

Attached Files

R. Dupraz posted this 31 July 2018

Nothing wrong with Hornady. However, used to be when I was after serious accuracy with jacketed, Sierra got the nod.

Don't know how it is any more as I haven't bought any jacketed for some time now. 

 

R. 

Attached Files

John Carlson posted this 31 July 2018

Hornady, Sierra, and the old wide mouth Speer 52gr hollow points have all shot well in my 223s but when I want serious accuracy I go to Berger.

John Carlson. CBA Director of Military Competition.

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 31 July 2018

... didja happen to shoot a few " known good " loads ...    my tikka/ithica 308 shoots only about 6 moa with gov't bullets that look just like those hornadys ....

ken

No, but I did shoot some 40 gr Nosler hp, groups were fair. I haven't shot this barrel much, and will sell it. The 22" sporter bbls like this don't shoot as well as the 26" heavy bbls.

I see big groups/no tipping; small groups tipping and sideways, I can't get a handle on this.

 

Anyhow, the idea was to see if jacketed shoot small groups with cast powder and no fiddling = weighing powder, fretting about oal, turning necks, weighing/sorting cases. orienting anything. They do.

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 31 July 2018

So, are we at the hypothesis that stronger bullets are more accurate than weaker bullets yet?

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 31 July 2018

 I think that the hypothesis is more :  twist and velocity how fast to best stabilize the bullet.

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 02 August 2018

So, are we at the hypothesis that stronger bullets are more accurate than weaker bullets yet?

All I* know is that JB groups < CB groups, mott.

 

CBA NM groups haven’t changed size in 20 years.

 

Is it easy to shoot jacketed .22 bullets In the 5-shot 100-yard average between .5” and 1” area, using a CB Powder, (Titegroup), and charge?

 

Yes. I have done it and can do it.

 

M110 Savage barrel, 12” twist

 

Hornady 55 gr fmjbt cannelure;

 

7/Titegroup, 5 shots in 7"

 

8.5/Titegroup, 5 shots in 4.75"

 

and NO tipping.

 

I shot some 40 gr Nosler hp, groups were fair/poor.

 

Probably barrel and twist at fault.

 

8/2/18, Shilen 9” twist 22-250, group size “

 

Nosler 40 gr., 7 Titegroup , .7, .8, .9, 1.1; avg. .875//8.5 Titegroup, .6, 1.1, .8; avg. .800

 

99% of CB shooters would be delighted to shoot these groups.

 

Hornady 55 gr fmjbt cannelure; 1.5, 1.475, 1.475; avg. 1.483//8.5 Titegroup, 1.1, 1.875, 1.075; avg. 1.35

 

The Hornady bullets are inexpensive, weighed, 55 +/-.1 gr selected, others sighters.

 

So, not all jacketed bullets shoot accurately; something makes them inaccurate.

 

What is it?

 

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 02 August 2018

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 02 August 2018

Joe just as an aside have the groups shot at the Super Shoot improved that much in the last 20 years? I know some of the records are pretty old. Have there been major improvements in ASSRA groups in the last 20 years? Have Rimfire shooters made great strides? High Power? BPCR? Air Guns (probably)? All the other shooting sports? It's all about the bullet and some just aren't good. A good cast bullet will out perform a poor jacketed bullet but a good jacketed bullet will run rings around the best cast bullet. Simple as that.

Attached Files

beagle6 posted this 02 August 2018

Why is all this on the CAST BULLET forum? If I was interested in jacketed bullets, I would be on a different web site.

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 02 August 2018

One of the great mysteries of cast bullets to some people is why they don't shoot as well as a good jacketed bullet let alone a premium BR jacketed bullet made in a good die with J4 jackets. Besides that I look at it as just making conversation.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
Scearcy posted this 02 August 2018

+1

Attached Files

RicinYakima posted this 03 August 2018

Joeb is looking for "Why". More power to him, and for me it is fun to read his trials and tribulations. For us it is the "exploring" as much as the finding.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • John Carlson
  • dbarron
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 03 August 2018

shooting some good mj bullets sets a baseline for that rifle .... necessary if you are seriously trying to learn about making cast bullets shoot better .  

and also joeb's work is valuable in that it has shown us that we can expect a valid baseline by using similar charges with mj as with our cast bullets to be tested.

after a day of shooting 3 to 12 inch cast groups, it is helpful to try a few mj ....... ::  yep, those cast loads really were that bad .....

ken

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 03 August 2018

Joe just as an aside have the groups shot at the Super Shoot improved that much in the last 20 years? I know some of the records are pretty old. Have there been major improvements in ASSRA groups in the last 20 years? Have Rimfire shooters made great strides? High Power? BPCR? Air Guns (probably)? All the other shooting sports? It's all about the bullet and some just aren't good. A good cast bullet will out perform a poor jacketed bullet but a good jacketed bullet will run rings around the best cast bullet. Simple as that.
Pat;
All  know about is ASSRA; we were shooting at WNYSS/Alabama NY when Jerry Ventura shot the first 200 yd 250 score, 10 shots with CENTERS in a 1.75 "25". (Surely Frank will correct this.) That was late '80s?
Since then 250s are commonly shot. I believe that we/they went from  old ballard/hiwall/Hepburn/stevens bbls to modern-made bbls and the bbl made the difference= lotsa 250s.
I don't recall ANY CBA change like that, equipment-technique or method. 

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 04 August 2018

You know a heck of a lot more about ASSRA matches than I do but a quick check of the CBA records shows the 200 yd score PB record is 14 years old and stands at 200-7x. Something must be different about the way the matches are held if 250s are a regular occurrence in ASSRA matches and 200- 7x is a 14 year old record in the CBA. Time allowed? Reentry? Something else? Not being a wise guy. I just don't know. People are shooting the best of the best equipment wise in the custom classes so there's got to he something else going on when comparing the two.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close