M1 Garand in .308

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billwnr posted this 3 weeks ago

Saw an interesting rifle last week.  It was awarded to a Marine Sgt for winning a military 1000 yard rifle match.  Odd thing is it was in .308 and the only info I could find on it was the Navy futzed around with some by glueing an insert into the chamber to reduce the chamber to .308.  Anyone have any info if the military rebarreled any Garands into .308 without using a chamber insert?  My info shows there's aftermarket barrels available but no rifles were rebarreled by the military to .308.  The chamber insert method is the only one I can find.

The sgt's score was 449-17x and I'm guessing it was a 45 shot match.

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Wineman posted this 3 weeks ago

Nothing for the Military was barreled to 308 only to 7.62x51 NATO (same round, slightly different chambers, no difference in pressure) Early Navy rifles had the insert made by HP White Labs, but it was found to be less than satisfactory. AMF was to make 17,000 of these Mk2 Mod 0 rifles.  Later rifles made by Springfield Armory were re-barreled to a Mk2 Mod 1 configuration. AMF and H&R also did re-barreled M1's. The USAF got some for Match rifles with RIA barrels. Early ones had plastic spacers to keep from loading a clip of 30-06. The gas ports were enlarged. Some had a 1:12 twist barrel and some 1:10 twist. A 308 barrel from Criterion for an M1 is 1:10. Today you can get one from the CMP.The Italians also made 7.62 NATO M1's and they are 1/2" shorter, so stocks and op-rods do not interchange.

Dave

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billwnr posted this 3 weeks ago

The one I saw was a Navy rifle issued to a Marine sgt for setting a 1000 yard record.  I'm guessing it has an insert glued in it.  Info I found also said it was less than satisfactory.

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M1fuzz posted this 3 weeks ago

Wiseman gave you some great info. Right on the money.

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JeffinNZ posted this 3 weeks ago

I know of a Garand in 7X57mm.  

Cheers from New Zealand

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billwnr posted this 3 weeks ago

difference between .308 and 7.62x51 is pot-A-to vs po-tat-o.  It's a generous .308 chambering designed to handle dirty ammo.  Otherwise people with military rifles would have problems shooting their rifles if .308 ammo wasn't readily available in the stores.   This same thing exists in the .223.  The military chamber is again a generous chamber but with the addition of a longer throat to handle longer bullets.

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M1fuzz posted this 3 weeks ago

I know of some in .35 calibers. Criterion makes Garand barrels in 6.5x55 Swede. Works in semi auto as well not a straight pull!!! That caliber makes it closer to what the Garand’s original caliber was. The .276 Pederson.

I am getting one of those barrels!! Can’t shoot it in the CMP matches or Cast Bullet Military Matches but, man it would be a fun gun!!!!

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Wineman posted this 3 weeks ago

I know I was nit-picking. My friend has a 1953 Model 70 Feather Weight in 308, the first year of it's introduction. Very sweet rifle. For some reason 70 years later, people will still dispute your tuber analogy. If the barrel said 308 it was probably a commercially done one given as a prize or award. I have a ratty M1 that may get a 308 barrel on it in the near future. Still plenty of ammo around, while the supply of 30-06 Ball is drying up quickly. The Sac-Valley range had the annual swap meet on Sat. One guy had 550 round spam cans of LC-52 M2 for $500. Not a bad price give the gouging going on today. He said he only sold one can. The 52 should be non-corrosive but even if it was corrosive, that was still a good price today.

Dave

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tlkeizer posted this 2 weeks ago

Greetings,

CMP sells M1 rifles with new .308 Citrion barrels, these are acceptable for "vintage" shoots.  I have one, and it shoots fine.  My back prevents me from shooting matches involving a prone position, so I don't shoot it much.  It does shoot fine.

TK

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bdrake71 posted this 2 weeks ago

I know of a Garand in 7X57mm.  

And its a sweet shooting rifle as well!   Barnett custom barrel if anyone is curious.

Bruce

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Wineman posted this 2 weeks ago

Be careful, 308 M1 Garands are not allowed in As Issued in CMP Games Matches. Rule 4.2.2 subsection e:

As-issued M1 Garands must be chambered for the .30-06 cartridge. No rifles chambered for the 7.62mm NATO (.308) cartridge may be used;

They can be used in Special Military Matches under Rule 5.2.6 Unlimited M1 Garand subsection b:

M1 Garands modified to fire the 7.62mm NATO cartridge;

I know the rifles were "issued" but the CMP makes the rules even if we don't agree with them.

Dave

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billwnr posted this 2 weeks ago

your post is the reason I was researching the conversions to see if it was a legitimate conversion.  The Navy conversion is the only service related one I found.  They also dropped the project as it didn't do as good as they wanted.

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Wineman posted this 2 weeks ago

Well, the inserts were not what the doctor ordered but a re-barrelled M1 was just fine. However, when M14's became excess due to the Army's adoption of the M16, the Navy was happy to get newer, if dated, technology. Magazine fed, higher capacity and a newer weapon what is not to like? 

Dave

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

If I had to go to war again, the M-14 would be my choice. Not for the rifle (good with proper set up and maintenance), but for the cartridge. 

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Alstep posted this 2 weeks ago

I earned my Distinguished and Presidents 100 with an M-1 in .308/7.62.   A real joy to shoot.

A Marine friend was awarded the rifle you described.   It was inscribed with his name, date, and the match.  

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billwnr posted this 2 weeks ago

Was your Marine friend's last name Heikell as that's what's engraved on the floorplate of the one I saw.

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Wineman posted this 2 weeks ago

Rick,

As Larry says, concealment is not cover. If you really want to reach out and touch someone, 30 caliber is the way to go. I'm not sure that replacing the M1, Carbine, and M3 sub-machine gun was the right course. From a logistics standpoint OK. From a versatility standpoint... I'm sure that is why the 5.56 and AR platform has been with us for so long and has defeated all newcomers. It does do all of the above and with the exception of cover penetration and long range sniping it has stood the test of time. You cant go wrong with the 7.62x51 (300 Savage) but full auto in a rifle is not its best move (not sure about the FAL straight stock in full auto). The short Russian is pretty close to perfect if we stay under 300 yards. Jack of all trades, master at none. Maybe when light sabers are a thing, we will have the all around platform. I have all the Combat! DVD's and watching them with M1's, M1 Carbines, BAR's, M1911's and Thompson SMG's (Vic Morrow), is about as perfect as you can get for squad firepower.

Dave

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dkmenefee posted this 2 weeks ago

A co-worker has three MK1 Garands awarded to him in Navy Intramural matches.  He just won a fourth in May.  Apparently the Navy still has a supply of them to keep awarding for high scores.

The chamber inserts were abandoned early on as some came loose.  Not reliable nor safe.

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

"The chamber inserts were abandoned early on as some came loose.  Not reliable nor safe."

We have much better chemistry now. Every shotgun with a monobloc has glued in barrels. I still have one of the inserts and have been thinking about gluing one into an '03 barrel. I just can't see any advantage to having a .308 than a 30/06.

PS. In the 1970's the Navy was awarding Remington Model 720's now worth big bucks. 

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Wineman posted this 2 weeks ago

Ric,

The production of Ball powders really helped the 7.62/308. My two cents is that when I use Ac 2520 or Win 748 in the 30-06, I never get as consistent results as when I use IMR 4064 or even IMR/H 4895. Since handloading is an option for me, the 308 barrel would only be a SHTF type of rifle, which I hopefully will never need.

Dave

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RicinYakima posted this 2 weeks ago

Those engineers in the 1930's and 1950's were not dummies. They built the ammo for the Garand with the best powder of the day. When they designed the T-65 cartridge, they used the best they had, WW ball powder from WW2. When I had a .308 hunting rifle, it always shot better with Win 748 than anything else for hunting loads with the then new 165 grain Nosler bullets. 

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