Kerosene for Ed's Red

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  • Last Post 12 March 2021
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alphabrass posted this 11 March 2021

I made my first batch of Ed's Red.  It seems to work very well, but I wonder if I'm missing a capability based on two of the ingredients I used: kerosene heater fuel and paint thinner (mineral spirits).  Both were used since they are readily available at local hardware and home improvement stores in small quantities.

I used the paint thinner to fulfill the Stoddard solvent ingredient.  The SDS for the paint thinner shows 80-100% CAS No. 8052-41-3 Stoddard solvent {Mineral spirits; Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates; White spirits}, with 3-7% trimethyl benzine.

The SDS for the kerosene SDS shows the same ingredients with mineral spirits at less than or equal to 100% and the trimethyl benzene at 5% or less.

Kerosene has CAS No. 8008-20-6, so it would appear that my mix is lacking this component.  However, kerosene and Stoddard solvent share characteristics.  Both contain aliphatic hydrocarbons of very similar carbon chain lengths; C9 to C16.  Both have similar specific gravities, flash points and boiling points.

Minding that the instructions say to use the specified ingredients, what is the practical difference between kerosene and mineral spirits in Ed's Red?  What is missing if true kerosene is not used?

Thank you.

Alphabrass

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Little Debbie posted this 11 March 2021

I have substituted diesel fuel for kerosene in a batch of Ed’s Red several years ago. Other than the nasty smell it seemed to work just the same as kerosene. I know that mineral spirits have different characteristics than diesel does when cleaning parts. I’m guessing it’s like a lot of things, there is a reason for the ingredients as formulated.

I’m guessing Ed will give some wisdom on your thoughts.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 March 2021

Aliphatic mineral spirits or Stoddard solvent is not kerosene. But I am told from deployed CBA members in the sandbox that JP8 turbine fuel used in the Blackhawk helicopter is fine. I am not familiar with how JP8 differs from Jet-A, which I have used with good results.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 12 March 2021

APD's are simalar in US Title 40 for hazardous materials. However there are hundreds of them and they vary in properties. It is my understanding that "mineral spirits" combines readily with oils and greases. Kerosene is more of a penetrate than the others. It separates carbon fouling from iron surfaces but is not a good surfactant, or lifting agent. These and the acetone are the cleaning ingredients.

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mashburn posted this 12 March 2021

Why substitute all of the mentioned ingredients, that have been proved to work very well, with odd ball ingredients? All of the ingredients, in Ed's formula are easily found, even in the extreme rural innards of the US where I live. The first year that I  taught high school chemistry, I blew a window out of the chemistry lab .I was mixing stuff that I had no idea how it would react. Needless to say, after that incident I had my students utmost attention when I got  behind the lab table to give a tutorial experiment. 

I'm not saying that you are going to cause an explosion, I'm saying why run the risk of giving an excellent product a bad name. Ed has released this to the general shooting public and it durn sure works. If you start substituting ingredients and  you give some to a friend and he tells other friends that Ed's Red solvent doesn't work worth a durn, you're going to give Ed and his good product a bad name. Let's keep it true Ed's Red. Ed you mixed up a very good product.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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alphabrass posted this 12 March 2021

Greetings everyone,

It was not my intention to make a substitution.

I purchased what I thought was kerosene, and upon investigation found that it really was kerosene substitute, but not labeled as such.

I'm asking questions and offering my experience so that others can avoid this pitfall.

Thanks all for the input.

Alphabrass

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Ed Harris posted this 12 March 2021

Here in rural West Virginia the Southern States Co-Op sells both K1 odorless kerosene for space heaters, etc. and non-highway (red dyed) diesel which is intended for farm equipment.  People have told me that if they didn't have other reasons to buy K1, but they had non-highway diesel as a matter of routine, that they mixed their Ed's Red with it, and other than the smell it worked fine.  "Hey, it's red anyway"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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alphabrass posted this 12 March 2021

Thank you Ed.

The demand for true kerosene may be less here in the desert southwest.  It doesn't get cold enough to gel diesel so kerosene isn't needed for vehicles?  I was able to find true kerosene in 1 gallon quantity at Tractor Supply, so I'm set.  I like to have a little on hand anyway for the lamp and Optimus stove.

Thanks again for all of the responses.

Alphabrass

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