Is Arsenic a danger to Cast Bullet Shooters

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  • Last Post 21 October 2017
John Alexander posted this 13 October 2017

Recently a CBA member sent me the question below.  I thought the forum was the best place to get a good answer.

Please help.

John

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"Out of concern for the well being of our cast bullet people this issue and

the last one have people using bird shot as bullet metal and I've seen

written that shot contains small percentages of arsenic with warning not

to melt it and use it for casting.  Journal 249 page 11 at the top: 'cast

from JR brand reclaimed shot'. The last issue reference is in the match

results, someone using magnum birdshot in bullet metal.  We sure don't

want to see our membership diminished prematurely.  Does this deserve

further research?"

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RicinYakima posted this 13 October 2017

John,

My last employment was as a field chemist for my states hazardous materials response team. Wreaks, derailments, drug lab raids, etc.. So I worked extensively with OSHA, NIOSHA and other requirements trying to keep the firefighters and cops from killing themselves from chemical exposures.

Some general principles: kept your melt below 800 degrees to lessen the oxidation of metals as they are more toxic than pure elements. Cast outside or with good ventilation to protect you from the dust. Arsenic is the most toxic of the metals we normally deal with, but normally stays dissolved in the alloy and does not oxidize readily. It is the dust from fluxing that is the concern. There are no metal "fumes" when casting at normal temperatures.

What I do is dump all the scrapings into a metal coffee can as I flux the pot. At the end of the casting session, I mix up a cup of plaster of paris and pour it over the top to solidity. When it is full, I throw it into the trash to be buried at the land fill. I know people want to save every penny, but trying to get the last tin and antimony out of the slag is where the greatest danger for exposure happens.

HTH, Ric

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OU812 posted this 14 October 2017

I believe the Amaerican made Lawrence brand is a little safer to melt down than the over seas brands (strange odor).

Please keep pets away from this stuff and clean up well after smelting or casting . Some dogs will eat lead (arsenic), which can kill...not quickly...but deadly over time. Trust me.

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John Alexander posted this 16 October 2017

Thanks for the replies.

Interesting that some dogs will eat it.  Not too strange.  I have heard that the old Romans made themselves silly by heating their wine in lead pots which gave it a sweet taste.

Ric outlined good practice to avoid problems with all toxic metals which was useful.  He mentioned that it was the most toxic of the metals we usually encounter.  He didn't say the the danger  was harder to avoid.  But I'm not sure I am reading more into it than intended.  Does using the salvaged shot  substantially increase the danger or is it just more of the same that requires good practice?  Maybe it is hard to say.

John

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RicinYakima posted this 16 October 2017

John, You can read on the internet, or go to the library, and read any basic text of metal dust for Industrial Hygiene. Lyman's CBH has very good articles on working safely with lead alloys. And what works for one, works for all. Cleanliness is next to staying alive working with any chemicals.

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John Alexander posted this 17 October 2017

Ric, Thanks for the additional reference.

I get it that it's like the other metals and the same safety measures apply and we ought to apply them.

The members question as I understood it is the level of arsenic in some shot so much more dangerous that we shouldn't use the stuff or does it bring more or less the same risk level that we are already exposed to and good safety practice will keep us reasonably safe?  That may not be easy to answer but if it contains many times the percent arsenic as our other sources that would be a clue.  If it brings about the same percentage maybe we shouldn't tell people not to use it.  I am completely ignorant about those percentages and hoped someone would know. 

Sorry I didn't make the question clear.

John

 

 

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RicinYakima posted this 17 October 2017

John,

When water dropping and heat treating bullets became a fad in the 1990's, I sent a sample of my 1970's and 1980's wheel weight mix ingots to the lab I worked with: 0.03% arsenic. So it has always been there, at least since the 1970's, in the US supply of scrap lead used for WW's. I have no idea what percentage of arsenic is in shot, it could be like Lazercast bullets' silver 0.0001%.

Ric

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John Alexander posted this 17 October 2017

Thanks Ric that is helpful.  Now if there is a way to know the percentage arsenic in a a type of shot a shooter could rationally decide whether to use it with the usual safety measures or back away if if the percentage was much higher.

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OU812 posted this 20 October 2017

They say just a trace of arsenic in alloy is needed to make bullets much harder after quenching in water. They also say when a harder water quenched bullet is sized afterwards, the sized surface turns soft again. This heavier bullet does have the advantage to buck wind, but will it lead barrel more than the lighter weight linotype bullet? I need to compare.

Size, bump, then quench.

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Brodie posted this 21 October 2017

Arsenic like all metals is a cumulative poison.  If you use the same precautions as you do with lead -- wash hands after casting or handling material, do not smoke or eat while casting, wear gloves, wash hands after loading-- you won't have any trouble.  You are in more danger from Tylenol (acetaminophen ) the leading cause of liver failure in this country.

B.E.Brickey

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