Just completed a deal and brought home a .38-55 single shot. Included were the pictured Ideal brand tools.
No plans to sell anything - just want to know what they could be worth.
At top is an Ideal Bullet Seater No.1 'Schuetzen' breech seating tool that seems to date to 1906.
Below is an Ideal No. 1 re and de-capper tool that is pre-1906, maybe 1890's?
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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A Whitney/Winchester or Winchester/Whitney rolling block. It's a custom that I believe could have been put together by Winchester using Whitney receivers after they bought them out in 1888. The silver plate on the right side of the butt stock is engraved with the name 'E. E. Stokes'.The receiver is Whitney Arms Co. and the barrel is definitely a Winchester #3. The bore is perfect. The rear sight looks like a Lyman #2, but I don't think that's the 'correct' tang sight. The front sight sure looks like those I've seen on Winchester hi walls. The receiver serial number is 80xxx which I think is in that 1888 ball park.
If any of you out there know about these please feel free to chime in.
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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Very nice!!!
David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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The 'Target Bullets' are 255 gr paper patched factory projectiles made by Winchester for 'The Ballard Rifle'. Four boxes of 25 each - all of which are full and in perfect condition. There's a box of U.S. brand No. 8 primers too - which seems to be a full box of 200. The tin box contains a bunch of cardboard wads and a wad punch. The glass stoppered bottle contains some VERY vintage and crusty lube. The brass is UMC and the only one missing I'm guessing was maybe used on the breech seater. They are unfired balloon head that are still shiny inside. I'm leaving all of these components just as they are.
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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Lovely,
It will probably shoot as nice as it looks.
You ARE planning to shoot it?
Steve
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I am absolutely going to shoot it. It has been fun these last couple of days just doing the research on everything. When I realized it was something of a hybrid (the Whitley/Winchester thing) I was afraid it was going to be revealed as some sort of weird parts gun cobbled together in somebody's garage in the evenings after high school in 1985 or something.
Now that I've looked into everything, the 'newest' component (other than that #2 Lyman tang sight) is the breech seater from 1906. All the various items go together relevant to the late 1880's-very-early-1900's time period.
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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With further research have found that this is a custom rifle built by an independent gunsmith. Based on the vintage of all the accessories the build seems to date from late 1880's to perhaps 1910. I had thought the Lyman #2 sight was more recent manufacture - but after checking it turns out this variation was available as early as 1905.
Looking at the perfect bore, tools in excellent condition, all brass still shiny on the inside, completely full and perfect boxes of bullets and primers - it's at least feasible that the owner never fired it.
Sometime this summer I plan on changing that..........
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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That's a VERY nice looking rifle. It looks like it may have been built as a light weight target rifle. I'd recommend grabbing some of the long Starline .38-55 brass to use instead of the brass that came with it. Brass that old is likely primed with mercuric (or at least corrosive) primers that are real bad news for cases and probably best kept as collector cases. That ought to be fun to play with...
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Sometime this summer I plan on changing that..........
Machines where meant to be used, use them.
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Hornet,
You're definitely right about that brass. I've been checking daily to see who has gotten some of that into stock.
Ric,
You're absolutely right. One of the reasons I've got this rifle now is that I decided to "convert" a couple of commemorative items I had into something I'd like to shoot. I went to a store loaded with trading stock ready to make a deal on an original 1850's M. Baader muzzleloading target rifle. After having it on hand for over ten years they had sold it a couple weeks before. They felt bad about it and instead we made a nice deal and I have this instead.
Apparently this was meant to happen!
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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Having been to war, spending a lifetime working on the "streets" and living to an old age, things are meant to happen. Go with the flow and enjoy your new rifle.
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These were included, I'm not going to shoot them but want to know what they're worth. Been wearing out google without success. Anyone have a clue or a link?
Thx
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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This project continues. I found some new RCBS dies that came with two different expander plugs. I haven't slugged the bore yet - I know that I have cerrosafe somewhere in my shop - it's hiding.
The good Starline 2.125" brass has been very hard to find with the current hysteria. Who'd a thought manufacturers would blow off the popular 38-55 to make brass for those silly 9mm's and 5.56's ?
After checking regularly with Starline, Graf's, Midway, Mid-South Shooters, Natchez, Track of the Wolf, Powder Valley, Buffalo Arms and a couple others - I tripped over 100 unfired still-in-the-packages on Gunbroker.
The bidding could have gone better - but I won. It did come down to the wire, but at least the last bidder gave up before we hit the whole fifteen minute rule thing. That would have been annoying if we'd gone into extra innings. What didn't help on my end was that we lost our internet in the last hour of the auction. (We get our service via landline and a nearby car accident wiped out the phone service.) Had to complete my bidding using my worn-out, antique 3G example of a cellphone. My family recognized the signs and left me alone.
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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I would do a chamber cast to determine its throat dimensions, order a suitable mold from Accurate, and then use the breech seating tool to load it. Betcha it'll return better accuracy than by messing with fixed ammunition, and the brass will last forever.
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The plan is to do both breech seating and cartridge. I'd like to see the difference between the two - and if I've got it out hunting I'd prefer to not have to breech seat. The deer stands we have will allow me to be "kind" to the rifle while hunting.
"Well hell boys. I'd damn sight rather be hung by my friends than by a bunch'a damn strangers."
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I believe you will find that the rifle has been “throated” for breech seating, so there will be a bit of extra free bore when shooting “fixed” ammunition. This may or may not have a noticeable effect on accuracy. I had a 32-40 (custom Ruger #1 with Douglas Barrel) that shot fixed ammo well, but really needed a mechanical seater to cram in breech seated bullets. It shot like a house afire though!
Froggie
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John Alexander
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Hornet
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45 2.1
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M1fuzz
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cohenmj660
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Tom Acheson
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delmarskid
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longhunter
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Shuz
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Mark Plantz
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