I know we're not supposed to check ingots....

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  • Last Post 01 November 2021
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Glenn R. Latham posted this 30 October 2021

...for hardness, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Last week I cast a bunch of bullets from 1-20 tin-lead alloy for my Trapdoor Springfield, an 1888 model.  The next day I checked them for hardness and came up with 10.5 Bhn.  That's a little harder than 1-20 should cast.  I had mixed the alloy from tin acquired from a friend and "pure" lead I have scrounged over the years.  One chunk was a machine counter-weight I acquired about 25 years ago that must have weighed 700 lbs. I have some melted from lead pipe as well.  It's all stamped "PL" and stacked together in the garage.  When I melt down scrap and cast ingots, I overflow the little 1-lb pockets so the 4 ingots are tied together.  This results in fewer pieces to handle, and they are readily broken apart if necessary.  My RCBS 20-lb. pot will easily take 2 of these 8+ pound ingots at once.

   This weekend I wanted to cast some slightly softer bullets for the Trapdoor, so I started checking my "pure" lead ingots for hardness.  I grabbed 6 of the 4+ pound ingots, broke one off of each one (keeping them separate) and checked the hardness.  Three of them checked 5 Bhn and 3 checked 10 Bhn.  Well I guess that might explain the "too hard" 1-20 alloy.  I put an equal number of each in the pot, cast a bunch of bullets for the Trapdoor (Lyman 457193, Lee 405 HB, and some from a 500 gr semi-pointed mould I made years ago).  The next day both the bullets and the ingots drained from the pot measured 7 Bhn.

   Well at least I know I can check the "pure" lead ingots before use and get useful information.

Glenn

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 30 October 2021

Probably you are seeing the affect of the antimony in the plumbing source.  Lead is as hard as cast as it ever will be.  The lead with antimony will change over time, and harden.  The error in testing ingots rather than bullets is that the rate of cooling in the short term aging process.  I prefer to use the same bullet mold when casting samples for hardness testing just to get a consistent sample for any alloy tested. 

The big question now, is how do they shoot?

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 30 October 2021

Actually, they shot quite well.  I made up a batch of 1-20 about 9 years ago when I bought this rifle, intending to only shoot BP in it.  I bought a can of Elephant 2F, dropped 70 grains into the cases, compressed it to allow just enough room for a 1/16" LDPE wad and the bullet (Lee 500 3R), and shot a 2.64" 10-shot group at 100 yards, wiping between shots with a 1-7 mix of Ballistol and water.  Lube was Emmerts.  I fired the next group without wiping and it spread out to 6.3".  It's REAL dry around here.  I found some of the bullets from that first batch of 1-20 and they measured 10 Bhn.

Glenn

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45 2.1 posted this 30 October 2021

Should you try it, 1-50 is much better for accuracy than 1-20 is. The Lee 405 gr. hollow base does quite well with it.

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MP1886 posted this 30 October 2021

45 2.1 is correct.  He got me using that alloy with a hollow base bullet and of the proper size for my 1886 carbine which shoot like a single shot match rifle now because of his help. Also only sizing the part of the case that holds the bullet. I made a special sizing die to do so that also decaps the case.  I'm shooting water jugs at 400 yards with it.  

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 31 October 2021

The 7 Bhn bullets I cast yesterday would be about the equivalent of 1-50, so I will try them next time out, which is weather dependent this time of year.  The Buffington is a real nice sight, but I don't think I can see them closer than 2-1/2" though....

Glenn

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John Alexander posted this 31 October 2021

Glenn,

Do you have access to a Brinell hardness tester.  If not which one of the hobby testers do you recommend.

John

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 31 October 2021

John,

   I have the LBT hardness tester, have had it for a long time.  It's easy to use and seems repeatable.  No magnifying glasses or fiddly measuring.  Reads out in Bhn.  He still lists them on his web site for $125.  I haven't tried any of the others.

https://lbtmolds.com/Home/tabid/5805/Default.aspx

Glenn

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45 2.1 posted this 31 October 2021

The 7 Bhn bullets I cast yesterday would be about the equivalent of 1-50, so I will try them next time out, which is weather dependent this time of year.  The Buffington is a real nice sight, but I don't think I can see them closer than 2-1/2" though....

Glenn

If you're testing the gun and load, don't introduce light reflections on your sights also. Harvey Donaldson set up the frame work to do so. He used a blackout box to cover him and the rifle sights so the sights were perfectly seen in the dark so they were repeatable and clear. It's in the book "Yours Truly".  The idea bears merit.

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Eutectic posted this 01 November 2021

Lead /tin alloys are harder after casting and age soften. Test them again after a week or two.

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