Hi from the SouthEast

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  • Last Post 26 July 2024
Jdt367 posted this 24 July 2024

Hi, new to the forum and casting rounds.

I joined to learn how to create loads for my two Marlin Model 1893 32-40 rifles.  One is stamped "For Black Powder" that I inherited from my uncle (looks like manufactured in 1904 based on serial number) and one stamped "Special Smokeless Steel", not sure of the manufacture date but the serial is 6 digits and starts with 438, so maybe not too long after the other one.

I've got a ton of supplies: some already cast bullets, some jacketed bullets, the ability to cast my own bullets, powder, primers, shell casings (30-30 and 32-40) and reloading dies for 32-40.

My problem is, there's sooooo much information on load data for this caliber. Jacketed vs cast, gas checks (I learned what that was today, and the reason for it), using resized 30-30 vs original 32-40, the different powders, etc.... I really don't know where to start. 

And not to mention what's appropriate for the "For Black Powder" rifle vs the other one - I've read cast bullets only in the black powder one, jacketed bullets are okay in the other at lower FPS..... 

I reload plenty for my "modern" hunting rounds, but this trying to cast my own bullets and figuring out tolerances is challenging.  I'm just trying to figure out where start.

Anyway, I'll be scouring the forums and asking questions.  If any of y'all have any experience with 32-40 or advice, hit me up.  

Thanks.

 

 

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Wilderness posted this 24 July 2024

JDT - you should enjoy those rifles.

I acquired a M1893 action a few years ago, when Numrich still had factory Marlin M1893 barrels. I ended up with a 26" half octagon Black Powder barrel. I've needed to do some research on it. Here's the story as I understand it.

There's a lot of confusing information on the BP versus SSS barrels, and we probably need to consider the Winchester and Marlin stories in parallel.

For Winchester, release of the .30-30 had been held up due to barrel wear issues with jacketed bullets and smokeless powder. This was with their normal barrel steel, the same as used for the Model 92 etc into the 1930s (see Cinnabar video). These wear issues were resolved by the use of Nickel Steel barrels, marked "Nickel Steel", which became standard for .30-30, .25-35 and .32 Special. NS barrels were offered as an extra cost option for .32-40 and .38-55. The non NS barrels had no special markings, and when Winchester came out with the .32-40 and .38-55 WHV rounds (about 1600 fps) with smokeless powder and jacketed bullets there was no safety restriction on which barrels they could be used in.

Marlin approached the matter differently. For .30-30 etc they used what was probably the same Nickel Steel and called it "Special Smokeless Steel". As for Winchester this was offered as an option on .32-40 and .38-55. These rifles had case hardened receivers. The non SSS .32-40s and .38-55s were offered at lower cost with blued receivers and the standard steel barrels, labelled "For Black Powder Only". This appears to have been a marketing move to pressure buyers into the more expensive SSS model. I cannot find any evidence to suggest that these barrels were anything but the same (non NS) barrel steels that Winchester and everyone else were using, and for which Winchester was quite happy to provide the WHV ammunition.

My conclusion, for my purposes, is that my BP barrel is just fine with modest smokeless loads and cast bullets. Sustained use of jacketed bullets might accelerate wear. If I needed to (which I don't) I might test my luck to 1600 fps. Since you have both BP and SSS versions you can do all your serious stuff with the SSS barrel.

Others please chime in and correct any errors.

As for loads, my rifle is exceptionally accurate with Lyman #32359 120 gns with 4.5 gns Red Dot, 1050 fps. It also shoots well with bullets from the old WRACo 32-40-165 mould. Another 1/2 gn powder will get about the same 1050 fps velocity. Pistol primers in both instances.

ADI lists loads for 2205/H4227 (if you can get it) with 200 gn cast bullets at about 1350 fps, but the 1:16 twist is just a whisker too slow for the heavy bullet at that speed.

Another option is to start with a Loverin style bullet .314" and patch up to .321" with Onion Skin. Forget the gas check. The patch tucks nicely around the gas check shank.

I have made all my cases from .30-30s. If you think the cases are too short for what is supposed to be a 2.125" chamber, then standard .30-30 are also too short for my 2.120" and 2.150" .30-30 chambers.

You are only as good as your library.

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pat i posted this 24 July 2024

I have no experience with your rifles but welcome and I'm sure you'll get some advice. Nice rifles, I'm jealous. I love those old lever guns.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 24 July 2024

Welcome from Washington State. I've no specific advice for your two old rifles but it sounds like a fun project.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 July 2024

you might try what I do when faced with a " kid in a candy store "  situation ::::

SIMPLIFY.

pick one rifle and clean the other one, oil it up and hang it on a wall to look at for a month or six .

***********************

then ... ( I would do ... )

set a goal for first round of accuracy at 6 moa ...   ok, I know the 32-40 is capable of finest cast accuracy ... heck, I used to shoot a 32-40 Pope single shot ... but if your first loads can hit a cantaloupe 10 out of 10 times at 100 yards you in fact have a very good start for a fun cast shooter.

and .. now you have a base load you can have fun shooting while you follow the rest of us down the rabbit hole chasing those teensy world class groups you read about in so many post on the internet groups ...

*****************

keeping with simplifying the journey ... and keeping our sanity ... here is my system to achieve useful accuracy with a new caliber or new rifle ..  

measure your chamber and throat and also useful the muzzle dimensions.  older rifles especially can be at variance with book specs ... cast bullets are very sensitive to fitting the chamber snugly.   the effort it takes to get measurement of your particular chamber can save you weeks .. or years .. of randomly trying different molds and sizers and lubes .   cerrosafe is probably best but a soft lead upset slug is pretty good also for finding out what your chamber looks like .  this forum can be searched for posts on this subject.

the important point here is correctly fitting bullets all of a sudden become friendly and will shoot pretty good with most powders, most lubes, most alloy mixes, and even wrinkled castings .. and over a wide range of velocities ..   with a proper fitting bullet, you might even have a hard time finding a " bad " load ...

again, you don't need a huge assortment of equipment to attain useable, fun,  accuracy .. just a snug fitting bullet, about any powder for the range of velocity you want, and ... oh wait ! ... that is about it ...

hope this helps, 

simple sim ... Ken

 

 

 

 

 

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Boschloper posted this 25 July 2024

Welcome from New Hampshire. If you are new to casting, get a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Lots of how to information plus load data for most calibers.  Once you get the .32-40’s sorted out, start working on casting for all the other calibers you load.

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Jdt367 posted this 26 July 2024

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.

@Ken and Wilderness - thanks for the very detailed responses.  @Boschloper, I've got the book on order!

Thanks again.

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