Hard Cast HP .30-30 Bullet on a Big Sow

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Wilderness posted this 14 August 2025

For those at the applied end of cast bullet shooting, this is another example of the successful deployment of a hard cast hollow point .30-30 bullet on a large pig.

By our standards, this is a big sow. Length from snout to butt of tail is 59”, and the weight estimate by the tape measure method is 180 lbs/82 kg.

 

She was shot with a 175 gn cast HP bullet, about 16 BHN, from a Savage 99 .30-30. Powder was 33 gns LeveRevolution. Muzzle velocity of these cartridges is a little over 2200 fps. Range was about 50 meters.

Bullets are #U321297HP (.32 Special) sized down from .322” to .312”. Details and images are in previous posts under “Hunting with Cast Bullets”.

My criteria for hardness and hollow dimensions are that a bullet has to penetrate the shoulder of a big boar and continue into or through the second shoulder AND the bullet has also to churn up the insides of a hog on a soft rib shot. Inadequate penetration calls for harder bullets. Not enough churn calls for softer.

This sow would not be as tough as a boar, but she did stop the bullet. Entry was high on the point of the shoulder on the side away from the camera. The bullet did not break any bones on entry, but it did break the shoulder joint on the camera side. There was no exit, but the remains of the bullet could not be found amid the mush. She dropped to the shot.

Fears of these hard bullets “shattering” are ill founded. With proper balance between hollow and hardness, at full velocity these bullets penetrate and kill very well indeed.

I drive my .30-30s as hard as I can without blowing the groups. I am averaging about 2.5 minutes for five shot groups. Users of larger calibers will have the luxury of being able to load to less than full velocity.

You are only as good as your library.

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barra posted this 14 August 2025

Nice keep up the good work.

 Like that shot placement.

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Idahocaster posted this 14 August 2025

Wilderness,

I know you have posted quite a bit about hunting with your cast hollowpoints in the past, so I apologize if I'm going back over ground already covered. Have you posted any photos of bullets recovered from pigs? How much breaks or rubs off and how much is left to penetrate?

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Wilderness posted this 15 August 2025

Idahocaster - thank you for your interest. Yes, there is an image of a recovered bullet on a couple of those posts, but here is an update. Mostly I don't get to recover anything because the stubs go right through.

The first two are #U321297HP sized down to .312". Bullet length is 1.025". Hollow depth is .500", removing about 10 gns (6%) of bullet weight. In all instances the HP area has broken off and there has been some additional grinding down of the bullet.

The bullet on the left passed almost through a boar diagonally without hitting major bone. The bullet on the right went through both shoulders of a sow and appeared as a lump on the skin on the far side. I can't say whether it broke one shoulder or two but it bears the marks of a serious encounter with bone. From a starting weight (with gas check) of 175 gns, the first bullet has retained 71 gns, and the second 56 grains.

 

 

Before I stumbled on to the idea of sizing down the .32 Special bullets, I was using #311407HP. It was not as good, in part perhaps because the lube grooves went further up the nose, weakening that part of the bullet. I don't have a "standard" recovered #311407HP, but can show a couple of variations out of interest.

The first is from my experiment with hardened wheel weights. The note says that the bullet broke both shoulders of a young boar and retained 63 gns from an original weight of 168 gns as cast (173 with gas check).

 

 

The next image is from an experiment to reclaim some bullets made with excessive hollow. A boar shot with the oversize hollow suffered a broken shoulder but no damage behind the shoulder. The solution to make the bullets usable was to pack the hollows with shot. The note says 7 pellets. That would have been around #6, #7 or #7 1/2 US size. The expedient worked. Note says "large boar, in behind shoulder, through far shoulder, under skin". No mention of broken bones, but bullet looks like it scraped some. Retained weight with gas check 78 gns.

 

 

 

You are only as good as your library.

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Brodie posted this 15 August 2025

I would love to loan you my 9.3X57 with 280-gr. cast bullets just to see how many you could get with one shot. 

B.E.Brickey

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Aaron posted this 15 August 2025

She was shot with a 175 gn cast HP bullet, about 16 BHN, from a Savage 99 .30-30. Powder was 33 gns LeveRevolution. Muzzle velocity of these cartridges is a little over 2200 fps. Range was about 50 meters.

 

I'll have to try that load in my 30-30 guns. I normally use IMR-3031 but I have some unopened LeverRevolution on-hand which is dying to get tried out. I'll put it under the 170gr Lee GC bullet and see how it does at 50 yards which is where the deer run on the property. My aging eyesight makes sight picture difficult anymore with open sights. I can whack a barn out there but a 2" group at that range really isn't in the picture for me anymore. 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 15 August 2025

Aaron

The dimensions of my bullets (#311041 in brackets) are length 1.025" (1.008"), bearing .700" (.566"), diameter .312" (.310"). I was also seating deeper to favour the Savage magazine - COL 2.500". My bullets and loading method require about 1.5 gns less powder for the same velocity that Larry Gibson achieved with #311041HP bullets.

I would expect your Lee bullet might also give a bit less velocity than my sized down .32 Specials, so you may need to increase the charge. LVR dislikes being downloaded. Larry's pressure tested load for #311041HP was 34.5 gns for a bit over 2200 fps (24" barrel). Suggestion for the Lee would be to work off the chronograph and settle for 2200 fps, or 2100 for a carbine. I've been to 2300 (24" barrel) with cast 175s and jacketed 170s.

Edit: I did some more shooting this morning with LVR & longer COL (2.530"). I pretty much confirmed what I had expected, which is that seating out another .030" has reduced velocities by 30 - 50 fps. So factor in COL as well.

This is Larry Gibson's work on LeveRevolution. It has pretty much been my Bible on LVR.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?115657-LeveRevoltuion-Powder&highlight=LeveRevolution

My view of LeveRevolution now is that it's at its best with jacketed 170 gn bullets (2300 fps) or full throttle heavy cast. Larry had good results also from the RCBS 180 gn bullet (actual weight rather more). If top velocity is not the objective, then 748 is better and Varget/2208 may be better again.

You are only as good as your library.

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Aaron posted this 15 August 2025

Thanks Bill. Great advice above in your comment. I'll play with the loads and let everyone know what I came up with with the Lee .309 170gr GC bullet. I also shoot 30-30 in a 14" T/C Contender where slightly faster powders work best to get a complete or near complete burn in the shorter tube. I am also fortunate to be able to compare pre-64 era Winchester rifles with the new Miroku made Winchester rifle. Should not be much difference but one never knows. I wish I had an Italian rifle to test out like a Cimarron M94. Anybody want to send me one? :-)

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 15 August 2025

BTW, in 1978 I traded a Savage 250-3000 for a generator. What a dummy. Wish I had that rifle now.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 15 August 2025

Turns out I have the Lyman 311041 mold too. I'll have to see which ones are out in the shed awaiting loading. The Lee or the Lyman or God forbid, both.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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pat i posted this 15 August 2025

Bill you really post some great stuff. You've become the resident forum terminal ballistics expert. A quick question to save me from searching past threads for the answer. How are you going about sizing the bullet down .010? I've sized plenty down .005 with one pass through a Lee die but never .010. A short explanation would be appreciated.

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Wilderness posted this 16 August 2025

Pat

x = unknown, spurt = drip under pressure.

My process on the .32 Special bullets, which start at .322", is to lube and gas check in Lyman 450 with .323" die. Then run through Lee .314" die, followed by Lee .311" die. They come out at 312", or .3125" on the gas check.

Lubing first is essential to keeping the lube grooves intact. Otherwise they close up when bullets are sized heavily.

I also scrape the bases flat before gas checking. Just take the high spots, don't worry about the pits. Gas checks sized from 8 mm to .30 will dimple (concave). If there are high spots on the bullet base the dimple will be off center and misshapen. When the high spots are shaved off the dimple will be concentric and centered.

You are only as good as your library.

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pat i posted this 16 August 2025

Good deal and thanks Bill. Guess you can bury another wife's tail that over sizing kills accuracy. I firmly believe lubesizers don't do a bullet any good but using a push through sizer doesn't seem hurt much.

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muley posted this 16 August 2025

seems the sizing down is almost like "swaging" ????

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Aaron posted this 16 August 2025

Ordered a HP 30 caliber mold from MP molds yesterday (Friday) as well as some Starline 30-30 brass. I bet you a million dollars the Mold from Slovenia gets here before the brass.

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Aaron posted this 17 August 2025

Shot the Lee 170gr GCFP bullet today over 33gr of LeveRevolution. Bullet weight is a true 173gr after dressing it up. Alloy is Lyman #2. Out of a 20" Winchester M94 I got an average of 2150fps. Not bad. I didn't put these on paper yet but the velocity range of 100fps is promising. Had no leading whatsoever after the 6 rounds. No streaks or other telltale indicators. Recoil was brisk in that little rifle and reminded me what the 30-30 is capable of.

I can't wait for the HP mold to arrive to test those rascals out. This is my first foray with LeveRevolution powder and I am impressed so far. By the way, that muzzle shot is before any cleaning whatsoever. No residue.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 17 August 2025

Aaron - nice to see some action coming from the discussion.

LVR tends to be a bit loose on the velocity variation/SD. This is in part a function of pressure, which is pretty low at "normal" .30-30 velocity, or perhaps loading density - see Larry's stuff. I see your SD is 33, which I'd be grumbling about. Was that #1 shot (2091) a fouler or did you pre foul? I expect my foulers to be different, though usually they are faster. LVR seems to like being run at speed.

In tube magazine levers that variation translates into vertical dispersion. For instance in my Marlin 336A a 100 fps velocity difference moves POI by about 2" at 50 meters - so pruning that spread is important.

The groups I showed in another post gave spreads of 64 (32 gns LVR) and 46 (34 gns), though both came up at SD 20. POI in the Savage is not as responsive to velocity.

I agree with your observation about no leading. My rifle was absolutely clean after the 34 gn group. I think that's what you get from a more progressive burn and lower pressure. Probably related, when I tried some soft solid bullets with LVR - 192 gns about WW equivalent and 31 gns LVR for 2100 fps - the group was about the same as with the hard bullets and no leading with that either. LVR does seem gentle on soft bullets, although this was only one group.

Top loads of 748 and 2208/Varget show some muzzle leading, but less ES/SD.

The discussion has come a long way from killing a pig!

You are only as good as your library.

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Aaron posted this 17 August 2025

 Your detailed terminal ballistics data with the HP bullet in a harder alloy got me going. I sent off for a HP mold as mentioned above but decided to work up some loads with a solid of the same weight to get started. Not having used Lever before, I must admit I am quite pleased to see the results I did. The Hodgdon load data for a 170 bullet with 33 grains was right on the mark BTW. The QuickLoad data was nowhere near as accurate as the Hodgdon data. QL showed a 101.9% load density which it isn't at 33 gr. They show a MV of 1980fps which is a tad bit off even in the 20" tube. QL shows 34gr as being in the danger zone. Clearly there is some disparate data and difference. I'll bet on the Hodgdon load data with 33 - 36.3gr but see no need to test the upper edge of the envelope. I bet the target will reveal sufficient group size for a whitetail hunt at 50 yards. We shall see. I'm dancing on my tip toes waiting for that MP Mold to arrive.

I didn't foul the bore. All 6 shots were for score so to speak. You have probably run the numbers to see the SD would be 11 and the average MV would be 2168 if we discount that first shot. You can bet my next group will be a fouled bore group. That was a very interesting observation on your part and truthfully, one I missed. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

I'll post the target results as soon as I generate them.

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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shootcast posted this 18 August 2025

I can’t argue with results . Dropping them were they stand. Most hunters want a bullet that will pass though leaving a blood trail. I have never hunted pigs. Must be harder to kill then deer. Your HP’s fragment and retain little of the original Bullet weight. I would imagine when butchering you throw away a lot of meat. I shot a facing doe at about 30 yards with TC Contender Super 14 in 30-30. Used the 041 Bullet mostly COWW . Bullet entered the front shoulder area and when skinning found the bullet just under the hide at the rear ham. Needless to say a pistol doesn’t have the velocity of a rifle. Penetration was certainly enough and yes the doe dropped were she stood. I admit that doesn’t happen often. Unless you really don’t care about meat damage I would think a softer alloy with HP that mushrooms and stays together would be more practical.

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Aaron posted this 23 August 2025

As promised, here is the information regarding the MP Mold hollow point bullet. The mold in fact, arrived on the 3rd business day from Slovenia. The brass arrived 2 days after that. America. Gotta love it.

I fired up the mold after de-greasing it and rubbing pencil lead on the hollow point spuds. Darn thing cast usable bullets on the second filling. I was off to the races!

I seated some gas checks, sized them, and squeezed in some White's Lube 50/50. I sized the bullets from .312 to .309 in the RCBS Lubrasizer. Then after prepping some new Starline brass, I filled the cases with 33gr of LEVERovlution powder. The bullets were seated to an O.A.L. of 2.518" and a crimp was applied with a Lee Factory Crimp die at the crimp groove on the bullet.

With 12 of these made up, I was ready for the chronograph and the test firing with a slightly lighter bullet at 150gr rather than 170gr I normally loaded these with.

It's important to note that the purchase of the mold and the entire test scenario and evaluation was based on firing these in a Miroku Winchester Model 94, twenty inch barreled rifle. As an afterthought upon completing the loading of the 12 cartridges, I figured I had better ensure they would chamber in the M94 rifle. I opened the action and slipped one into the chamber and DANG, the cartridge would not seat. Not off by a little, but off by about a quarter inch. No go. No joy. Ain't gonna happen. I spewed forth some choice words and began the shorter seating test to determine how deep the bullet would need to be seated before they would chamber in the M94, the Miroku M94.

I finally got one to chamber in the Miroku M94 with a O.A.L. of 2.359" rather then the original 2.518" cartridge. That's a .160" difference and the shorter cartridges look like the bullet is seated to the primer. It isn't of course but that's a lot more bullet way down in that case. The base of the bullet thus seated is halfway down the shoulder of the case. Very low, at least to my eye.

Then....a brain fart. Will the longer seated bullets chamber in a pre-64 Winchester? Son of a gun, they will. Will they chamber in a T/C Contender barrel? Answer is yes they will. With ease.

I would say the situation had been solved BUT when attempting to run either the longer cartridge or the shorter cartridge through the action, they simply would not cycle. They either jammed up under the lifter or crashed into the breech face at 5 o'clock jamming up the works. Very very frustrating if I must say so.

I am a bit frustrated that such a nice looking bullet is giving me such a fit. The Lee 170gr bullet has a nose of .300" and chambers in everything with ease. They cycle in every Winchester I have. The MP Mold bullet has a nose diameter of .3085" and won't chamber in the Japanese M94 with a tighter throat. I will buff one of these bullets down and determine what diameter the nose needs to be to chamber in that rifle.

It's great to know these will fit into the T/C Contender with ease. The 33gr charge is a bit of overkill with a 14" tube however. I will not get a very efficient burn with LEVERevolution powder in that tube. IMR-3031 was what I had been using in that barrel.

So...my evaluation of that HP bullet is on hold. It just doesn't seem to be a good design for the lever action rifles where the cartridges will not cycle reliably through the action. I'll probably reserve them for the T/C which I do hunt with regularly. I'll have to work up a different load of course, but that should be a snap.

DANG.

 

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 24 August 2025

Aaron - good to see you off and running.

Some comments ..... 

I keep  my .30-30 bullets at .312". My reasoning is that in the absence of a decent throat to guide the bullet into the rifling, some solid neck guidance won't go astray. You can check max allowable bullet size by measuring OD of fired case neck, then size and load same case with bullet of known diameter. Measure neck OD again. Difference between fired and loaded neck OD is how much you can add to bullet diameter without running out of neck clearance. If cases are variable, a very light ONT, just getting the high spot plus catching the occasional thick neck, will keep you out of trouble with neck clearance.

Second point is bullet weight. Your bullets will be quite a bit lighter than mine. LeveRevolution goes well with heavier bullets, 170 gns plus. Larry Gibson did well with 150 jacketed bullets loaded right up (2500 fps), but I think I recall a comment in his writeup somewhere about LVR being not so good with lighter cast bullets. This will be to do with having enough pressure to get LVR burning properly. Your experience will be instructive.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

You are only as good as your library.

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